SlowB16

I recently bought an eg hatch that I'm going to build into a little track car. I won't be racing for now, just doing hpde/lapping days. The car came with a b20vtec motor (b16a head) with rod knock. Since the motor is going to have to come apart, I'm looking at a couple different options.

1. Build another b20vtec using the b20 block that is currently in the car.
2. Find a gsr block and throw some type-r pistons in it.

My #1 goal is to have a reliable motor that can take some abuse at the track. I'd like it to be pretty quick, but my budget won't allow for an all-out build. I'm thinking pistons and cams are going to be about as much as I can afford. I'm hoping to get 200hp out of whatever setup I go with.

My thinking is that while I might be able to save some money if I go with the b20vtec (since I can re-use the block that is in the car), the gsr block/b16 head combo might be more reliable. I realize the b20vtec motor will have more torque than the gsr, but I figure the higher-revving gsr motor might be better for the track.

Which of the two options above would you recommend? Any other options that might be a good idea? Which cams do you recommend? I'm currently considering skunk2's or gsc's. Is a full valvetrain necessary if I get cams, or will the stock stuff hold up?

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Just make it a regular B20 engine and call it a day.
Cheap, reliable and you'll have plenty of power.
If you are just learning on the track it will be more than enough power to start with.


You dont mention your experience level so its not easy to guide you.
Why do you think you need 200 hp?
There are drivers that can take a bone stock SOHC honda and run circles around high hp cars.. Quick isnt the car.. quick is the driver.

If you build a car, build it to a specific ruleset. IE. SCCA, NASA.
That way when you have sufficient experience you can just keep driving the same car in competition should you decide to go that route.

SlowB16

I currently drive an '08 Evo with 350hp (turned down to 310 at the track) that I've done a couple of track days with. I'm building this Honda so that I don't have to worry about a $25k bill should I have an accident.

I'd like to have enough power to make the Honda go around the track as fast as the Evo. I don't want to build something and then be disappointed when it feels slow...if that makes sense. Maybe 200hp isn't necessary for my goals. It seems like there are a million options out there (re-use what I have and go b20vtec, just get a cheapo ls motor, go all b20, gsr block with the b16 head I have, lsvtec, etc.); just trying to figure out which one meets my goals for the least amount of money.

Thanks for the advice on building to a specific ruleset. I'll have to figure out what organization I'm most likely to race with in the future.

iwannarace

Keep it simple. A stock B20 can be way quick + reliable if you're a good driver.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Indeed! I understand the 350hp thing,its what you are used to.
But most drivers who start out with High HP cars often dont see the errors they make on track because of the power.

They often pick up bad habits too.. understandable.
A B20 powered car in the hands of a capable driver can be just as fast or faster than your Evo. Its not the car thats fast.. its the driver.
Change the mentality of HP= Fast. Its the driver.
Just when you think your car is quick.. change the driver to someone with more experience , and he will show you a different kind of fast.

Good idea of building a dedicated track car.. wrecking your nice dd would suck!

SlowB16

If I go with a stock motor, would you recommend a b20 or b18b?

known

iTrader: (1)

B18B was a lot of fun

http://www.youtube.com/embed/o0xq3vJh1fM

SlowB16

Is that a stock motor?


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known

iTrader: (1)

No but not by much.

11.0:1 comp, b16 pistons, brian crower stage 2 cams, Brian crower vs/retainers.

Stock intake manifold and TB.

It was a class built motor so I was limited.


Cheap fun motor is what I listed in a b20/18 by adding a jdm p8r head from the b20, upgrade to a bigger intake manifold.

Pretty cheap build really.

known

iTrader: (1)

:Double posted:

iwannarace

whatever you could find a better deal on, i.e. lower miles, recently rebuilt, reasonably priced...

drmix

I would go with a straight B20. I always see this company on Craigslist selling JDM B20's in OR. $800 seem like a lot of motor for the money especially considering it will have low mileage since its from Japan.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ptd/3493342701.html

known

iTrader: (1)

B20 pistons are going to be more expensive and slightly harder to find if you really want to bump compression.

B18B will be easier for pistons.

If youre going stock, go jdm B20 with p8r head on it.

chad

stock engine.....honda engine....

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

^Proof that there are those kind of drivers that are a different kind of fast!
You Go Chad!

Was that a Sanford and Son truck on the track @ 3:50

SlowB16

^^ What motor is that?

drmix

K24

SlowB16

Oh....haha a little out of my budget.

SlowB16

Can you explain the benefit of the p8r head? I searched a little but couldn't find much.

Any recommendations on where I might find one for sale? Doesn't look like anyone has had one for sale on here in quite a while.

drmix

I was reading through this thread and its got some info about the p8r head
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/b20-non-vtec-faq-guide-including-p8r-head-information-1467903/

known

iTrader: (1)

Odd, you said Stage 3 BC cams on youtube Chad?

slowb16:

The p8r head flows almost as much as a B16 head and has the same size valve openings. The limitation with the B18B head or the USDM B20 is flow restriction. I know if I opened up my intake tract with my B18B, it would have made a large difference in the higher end range it was lacking.

I saw a few heads awhile back....
http://hondamarketplace.com/showthread.php?t=3080386 pretty cheap if he still has it.
ebay, wtb, etc...

I would think it wouldnt be that hard to find considering most people ditch the heads for an ls vtec conversion.

SlowB16

Been reading up on the b20 and I'm starting to lean toward doing a non-vtec build using the block I have. I'm thinking type-r pistons, crower cams, crower springs/retainers, and a blox mani.

That or just buy a stock b20 and run that next year while I learn how to drive.

The only reason I'm considering doing a build is because I can re-use the block I already have which means I won't have to buy a full b20 engine. On the other hand, a motor is $800 which will be less than doing a build with the block I have (would have to buy a head). On the other other hand, doing the build now gives me the motor I want now and won't require me to pay for a build and installation in the future.

Decisions decisions....


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known

iTrader: (1)

Bold option.


I havent done a build with a B20, I would research some of the builds already done on them. I have heard the cyl walls are prone to cracking once you start doing a lot of modifications. Most builds tend to go the sleeved route because of it.

Also check out Brian Crower (Son) vs Crower (Dad) products, they are similar but slightly different in certain areas.

It seems you are going in the right direction though.

SlowB16

I didn't realize there are two different crower brands. Good to know! Most people seem to talk about Brian crower.


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gringotegra

Hey Matt, Myles from English here

One thing about your block is it has a spun bearing and it needs a crank. So it would need a new crank and then the block needs to be line honed.


We like the idea of building the motor, using your current block and getting some higher comp pistons, getting some cams/valvesprings and a skunk 2 IM.

On the other hand you could always buy a JDM ITR swap and throw it in there. We just did one last week and it dynoed 191whp. Always a thought....