Philbert

i have state farm insurance. does anybody with this carrier know, if i were to damage my car at an autocross event, would they cover the damage? if not, is supplemental insurance available?

thanks,
phil

celica73

Hard to say. USAA covered my car when it was damaged at an autocross then promptly dropped the coverage.

Oh well. The bill was close to $4000 with a rental, we are now with Progressive and there is absolutely NO mention of any kind of motorsports in the policy.

They can still drop us after a claim, but they can't deny the claim because of racing, etc.

Scott

getfast

I echo George's advice: ask your agent.

I know that it does depend upon the type of event, often regardless of speed. As far as I understand, my Progressive policy covers me for on-track "driving school" incidents, but not for autocross, since autocross events are timed (and considered much closer to "racing" in the eyes of my particular insurer).

BTW, I have heard stories of agents dropping and/or adjusting policies once they hear that their clients are doing these kinds of events, unfortunately. So you *might* consider a cold call to an agent other than your own, for a general inquiry, before you admit to your insurer that this is a personal concern.

Hope that makes sense,

Jon

getfast

Really? IIRC, my Progressive policy specifically includes a line or two about "timed motorsports events" but makes no mention of "driver education / improvement". Hence my comments above. I'll try to find it when I get home, and put up the exact wording...

Confused, because I want Scott's policy instead,

Jon

Philbert

i was worried something like that might happen, which is why i thought i'd check with people here before i gave my agent an excuse to raise my rates. good suggestion to call another state farm agent to ask about coverage.

i just got my SCCA new member information, and it had some information about insurance, but i couldn't tell what it actually covered. was the property damage for SCCA property (meaning the driver isn't liable if they hit something owned by the region?). or was it to cover participants' property?

thanks again,
phil

Philbert

scott,

how did your car get damaged at an autocross? i posted this thinking that accidents were extremely rare, but just wanted to see if i'd be covered in the worst case scenario. i hadn't ever heard of an actual incident at an event. what happened?

thanks,
phil

drumsy

Excellent suggestion. I work for Allstate and boy as soon as those agents here that they can make more commission by upping your rates due to your hobby, they'll do it!

Floyd

I think there was a car fire at one of the local events last year. That would suck.

Solracer

Almost every insurance company has a clause about compettion events, i.e. they do not have to cover you and they can/will drop you. Whilie I agree that autocross is know where near the danager to your car that Track Competitoin is, it is still competition and you policy may or not cover you or drop you asap after the incident. Most insurace however will cover you if you wreck your car @ a Drivers Education event, becuase it is not competition no timer. no trophies give to the winners.

SPiFF

There was a kid who totaled his WRX at an Atlanta region AutoX last year, any1 know if he was covered??

Mista Bone

State Farm will cover autox incidents, but I think only the first time. President of our local autox clud did a number on his Miata, about $6000 worth.

Apocalypse

It's not a matter of agents wanting to make more money, it's a matter of them getting reprimanded for writing incorrect policies and having a high loss ratio due to it. I too, work for Allstate.


[Modified by SpeedFreek24, 8:48 AM 3/27/2002]

madhatter

Yep, he was covered.
By the same company that covered the idiot who hit me. Both cars were in the shop at the same time, so I got to speak with the mechanic about it.
Also, Progressive has started to hit regional SCCA websites and pulling the policies of people they cover by the names posted on the results sheets. FYI. Might not be a bad idea to make sure they misspell your name in the computer.
--Chris, I mean, uh..John, who drives, uh.... who doesn't drive a Civic, I mean Integra...

madhatter

Not sure, but if you are from state X city Y, and drive car Z, and your first and last names match, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist (or even an insurance adjuster) to put that all together. There can't be that many identical names running around in identical years/models/makes of car.

.RJ

this was a discussion that went through team.nonsense, and it was one progressive agent in Maine (cumberland motor club, which is a really really nice group of guys - they didnt throw me out after i showed up in my Sc2 and ran FTD PAX ). There was a tip-off of the information, and policies were not cancelled, but the customers were sent a letter saying their policies would not be renewed when they ran out. So, progressive as a whole doesnt go searching for autocrossers...

Ryan

GSRMatt

Each person should read their policy, there is a specific list of exclusions.

In our case, on a Progressive policy, it lists "speed contests". When asked, they mentioned anything with direct competition (head-to-head) or with timers (autocross) is excluded.

My dad wrecked the GSR at an autocross, and it was not covered. We did not inform the company to avoid any future hassles.

Philbert

how did he wreck it? what happened? i'm getting more nervous about autocross as i can't really afford to have no insurance coverage in the event something happens to my car.

Crack Monkey

The only accidents I've seen were:
1. VWs with blown shocks and race rubber
2. cars that were overdriven by drivers attempting to win championship points
3. competitors at non-standard venues (race tracks, etc)
4. complete dipshits

**** does happen. But it is pretty rare at autocrosses.

whitney

Three weeks ago, my wife trailed the throttle at the finish in my car at a test-n-tune, spun, and hit a tree that was about 30' from the course. She wasn't used to such a tail-happy car.

A few months ago, a friend of mine hit a slick spot at an autocross and spun into a dumpster which was sitting well off-course.

2 years ago, a certain well-respected person who frequents this board (Hi Karl!) also got bit by the trailing-throttle oversteer bug and spun into a curb, bending up the substructure on his Integra.

The closest explanation for these people in your accident list would be "4. complete dipshits", and that absolutely isn't true. None of these incidents were caused by overdriving or doing anything "wrong". Each incident was caused by a mistake combined with unfortunate circumstances. Everyone makes mistakes. Usually mistakes do not result in bent sheetmetal. These 3 people were unlucky. It's all about odds.

That's why it's called an accident. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and don't autocross something that you absolutely couldn't live without.

I traded in my $15000 autocross car for a $5000 autocross car, just in case.

[edit for clarification]


[Modified by whitney, 5:52 PM 3/27/2002]

r2x

Good rule... don't put something on track you couldn't walk away from... this doesn't mean you'd *want* to walk away from it, just that you *could.

The way I see it, my insurance company is assuming the liability of street driving conditions, not track driving, or autocrossing. When I put my car into the guardrail at VIR last year, I paid out of pocket for the repairs. USAA did not sign up to cover that kind of stuff. IMHO.

My philosophy anyway...

Diane

Renegade

Iused to have progressive and I was told that you would be dropped if they found out you are racing in any way..

SPiFF

There is a chance your car could be totaled on the highway. There is a chance your car could be totaled at an AutoX. There is a chance that your car could be totaled on track. There is a chance your car could be totaled by a mereorite.

Everything in life has some risk associated with it. If you don't want your car to get messed up, lock it in the garage and throw away the key. Otherwise .. weigh the risks involved in any activity.


[Modified by SPiFF, 6:40 PM 3/27/2002]

r2x

But the highway and the medeorite would be covered by car insurance, while the track and autocross may very well not be, or if it is get you dropped afterwards.

Crack Monkey

As I said, the only incidents I have seen were those that I listed.

Your examples make me wonder if we (the autocrossing community in general) need to re-evaluate our safety rules and course design philosophy. Was the dumpster incident the same day Jim Howard's drove his Z06 into a dumpster? It just seems to me cars are spinning WAY off course with relative frequency - maybe tire tech and horsepower are just getting to good. I dunno.

All of the above is why I own disposable cars. New cars are pretty, but what a waste of money (wrecked or not wrecked).

nighttime

I dont know if supplemental insurance is available, but I bet it would be *very* profitable. I mean, how often does a car get wrecked at an Autocross. We hadnt had an incident in 3 years until that WRX was spun into a wall. (The funny thing is, we were talking about how no accidents had happened in 3 years either earlier in the day, or at our last meeting) Not only that, it was the last event of the season! We were that close! But anyway, lets say it was $100-$500 a year to cover your car. You would almost never have a claim. If I had the money to do such a thing, Id seriously consider it. What would I do if I wrecked my car? Id just pay it out of pocket and not tell the insurance company. They cover the car on the street, but Im responsible for what happens to it while im Autocrossing. If my company wants to drop me, Ill just find another company to cover the car. (But my agent is pretty cool, so Im not worried about it)