F20C and K20A block and head Questions
#27
Re: (SimbaDogg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SimbaDogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i really bed to differ...i dont know how up to date you are w/ rsx type s's...but what they can do for the amount of mods they put it, its really no comparison. for example, my buddy down the street has an rsx s, and he like many others have a setup thats nearly indentical. CAI, header, exhaust, type r cams, hondata flash...in most cases thats good for 230 whp. picking up about 50 wheel hp from just bolt ons, i've yet to see a s2000 come even close to that. then again, when you look @ the f20, u start to realize that its a motor running almost at its peak, many aftermarket parts give you very little gains. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I should say you're not up to date with the s2000 to make such a statement that the engine is running at it's peak. Sounds like the exact same talk I was hearing about B-series engines back in '96.
This isn't a F20 Vs. K series thread. The point is, the F20C with bolt ons (I don't consider swapping cams as bolt ons) will make 40whp and more. So...we're looking at a good intake, exhaust, headers, t-body and some tuning with a programable ecu will get you 250whp on a s2000. That does not include cams that you mention is done on the RSX. Toda cams do make power on the s2000, but need other mods to compliment their profile.
i really bed to differ...i dont know how up to date you are w/ rsx type s's...but what they can do for the amount of mods they put it, its really no comparison. for example, my buddy down the street has an rsx s, and he like many others have a setup thats nearly indentical. CAI, header, exhaust, type r cams, hondata flash...in most cases thats good for 230 whp. picking up about 50 wheel hp from just bolt ons, i've yet to see a s2000 come even close to that. then again, when you look @ the f20, u start to realize that its a motor running almost at its peak, many aftermarket parts give you very little gains. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I should say you're not up to date with the s2000 to make such a statement that the engine is running at it's peak. Sounds like the exact same talk I was hearing about B-series engines back in '96.
This isn't a F20 Vs. K series thread. The point is, the F20C with bolt ons (I don't consider swapping cams as bolt ons) will make 40whp and more. So...we're looking at a good intake, exhaust, headers, t-body and some tuning with a programable ecu will get you 250whp on a s2000. That does not include cams that you mention is done on the RSX. Toda cams do make power on the s2000, but need other mods to compliment their profile.
#28
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Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (Nikos)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nikos »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's the pic for those that have not seen a F20C with FWD tranny
</TD></TR></TABLE>
so whats the deal with this?
someone stuck a fwd tranny on there somehow? but it never made it into an actual car???
</TD></TR></TABLE>
so whats the deal with this?
someone stuck a fwd tranny on there somehow? but it never made it into an actual car???
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Re: (vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I should say you're not up to date with the s2000 to make such a statement that the engine is running at it's peak. Sounds like the exact same talk I was hearing about B-series engines back in '96.
This isn't a F20 Vs. K series thread. The point is, the F20C with bolt ons (I don't consider swapping cams as bolt ons) will make 40whp and more. So...we're looking at a good intake, exhaust, headers, t-body and some tuning with a programable ecu will get you 250whp on a s2000. That does not include cams that you mention is done on the RSX. Toda cams do make power on the s2000, but need other mods to compliment their profile. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i've been doing quite a bit of research on the s2ks, since i am considering getting one. and from what i've seen with a build up like the spugen titanium single exit exhaust, aem cold air, and toda headers, the amount of hp that you pick up from the three were really nothing to brag about...especially for the price. this is what i meant about the f20 being a peaky or high strung motor. i never said you couldn't get power from it, if it came across that way, thats not what i meant. i simply said, it seems a hell of a lot easier to get power from the k20 than the f20. the reason that i bring up the toda header, aem cai, and the spugen ti exhaust...are all three are actually proven to pick up some power, but w/ the ti exhaust especially, and the toda header, you're gonna lose quite a bit of weight. honestly, the first and most potent mod i think you can do...especially for the price is going to be to switch to a 4.57 or 4.77 gear. especially since someone was circulating that tip on s2ki on how u can use the mazda gears...thats dirt cheap for the mechanical advantage it'll give you throughout the revs
This isn't a F20 Vs. K series thread. The point is, the F20C with bolt ons (I don't consider swapping cams as bolt ons) will make 40whp and more. So...we're looking at a good intake, exhaust, headers, t-body and some tuning with a programable ecu will get you 250whp on a s2000. That does not include cams that you mention is done on the RSX. Toda cams do make power on the s2000, but need other mods to compliment their profile. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i've been doing quite a bit of research on the s2ks, since i am considering getting one. and from what i've seen with a build up like the spugen titanium single exit exhaust, aem cold air, and toda headers, the amount of hp that you pick up from the three were really nothing to brag about...especially for the price. this is what i meant about the f20 being a peaky or high strung motor. i never said you couldn't get power from it, if it came across that way, thats not what i meant. i simply said, it seems a hell of a lot easier to get power from the k20 than the f20. the reason that i bring up the toda header, aem cai, and the spugen ti exhaust...are all three are actually proven to pick up some power, but w/ the ti exhaust especially, and the toda header, you're gonna lose quite a bit of weight. honestly, the first and most potent mod i think you can do...especially for the price is going to be to switch to a 4.57 or 4.77 gear. especially since someone was circulating that tip on s2ki on how u can use the mazda gears...thats dirt cheap for the mechanical advantage it'll give you throughout the revs
#30
Re: (SimbaDogg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SimbaDogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i've been doing quite a bit of research on the s2ks, since i am considering getting one. and from what i've seen with a build up like the spugen titanium single exit exhaust, aem cold air, and toda headers, the amount of hp that you pick up from the three were really nothing to brag about...especially for the price. this is what i meant about the f20 being a peaky or high strung motor. i never said you couldn't get power from it, if it came across that way, thats not what i meant. i simply said, it seems a hell of a lot easier to get power from the k20 than the f20. the reason that i bring up the toda header, aem cai, and the spugen ti exhaust...are all three are actually proven to pick up some power, but w/ the ti exhaust especially, and the toda header, you're gonna lose quite a bit of weight. honestly, the first and most potent mod i think you can do...especially for the price is going to be to switch to a 4.57 or 4.77 gear. especially since someone was circulating that tip on s2ki on how u can use the mazda gears...thats dirt cheap for the mechanical advantage it'll give you throughout the revs</TD></TR></TABLE>
there's one thing you left out cheif, engine management. You had in in the comparison with your friend's RSX, being the hondata flash, but left it out on the s2000. The s2000's ecu is not known to make benefit of increased air flow into the engine and out of it, my assumption is Honda engineered it that way to reduce the chances of engine failure due to detonation.
i've been doing quite a bit of research on the s2ks, since i am considering getting one. and from what i've seen with a build up like the spugen titanium single exit exhaust, aem cold air, and toda headers, the amount of hp that you pick up from the three were really nothing to brag about...especially for the price. this is what i meant about the f20 being a peaky or high strung motor. i never said you couldn't get power from it, if it came across that way, thats not what i meant. i simply said, it seems a hell of a lot easier to get power from the k20 than the f20. the reason that i bring up the toda header, aem cai, and the spugen ti exhaust...are all three are actually proven to pick up some power, but w/ the ti exhaust especially, and the toda header, you're gonna lose quite a bit of weight. honestly, the first and most potent mod i think you can do...especially for the price is going to be to switch to a 4.57 or 4.77 gear. especially since someone was circulating that tip on s2ki on how u can use the mazda gears...thats dirt cheap for the mechanical advantage it'll give you throughout the revs</TD></TR></TABLE>
there's one thing you left out cheif, engine management. You had in in the comparison with your friend's RSX, being the hondata flash, but left it out on the s2000. The s2000's ecu is not known to make benefit of increased air flow into the engine and out of it, my assumption is Honda engineered it that way to reduce the chances of engine failure due to detonation.
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Re: (vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there's one thing you left out cheif, engine management. You had in in the comparison with your friend's RSX, being the hondata flash, but left it out on the s2000. The s2000's ecu is not known to make benefit of increased air flow into the engine and out of it, my assumption is Honda engineered it that way to reduce the chances of engine failure due to detonation. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i didn't mention it in my last thread, but in previous threads i mentioned an aem cai and ems combo. that gets about 20 to the wheels w/ tuning right? the thing w/ the ems...its so gah'd damn expensive, then again, it is a full stand alone.
i didn't mention it in my last thread, but in previous threads i mentioned an aem cai and ems combo. that gets about 20 to the wheels w/ tuning right? the thing w/ the ems...its so gah'd damn expensive, then again, it is a full stand alone.
#32
Re: (SimbaDogg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SimbaDogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i didn't mention it in my last thread, but in previous threads i mentioned an aem cai and ems combo. that gets about 20 to the wheels w/ tuning right? the thing w/ the ems...its so gah'd damn expensive, then again, it is a full stand alone. </TD></TR></TABLE>
how much is it these days for a useful hondata system? The EMS is chump change compared to a motec system, and IMO is a LOT easier to use, install, and control many more parameters. Tuning it on the other hand requires skill and patience and a good tuner. I see it as a no brainer to buy and run the EMS, for what you are getting, it's a steal at MSRP.
i didn't mention it in my last thread, but in previous threads i mentioned an aem cai and ems combo. that gets about 20 to the wheels w/ tuning right? the thing w/ the ems...its so gah'd damn expensive, then again, it is a full stand alone. </TD></TR></TABLE>
how much is it these days for a useful hondata system? The EMS is chump change compared to a motec system, and IMO is a LOT easier to use, install, and control many more parameters. Tuning it on the other hand requires skill and patience and a good tuner. I see it as a no brainer to buy and run the EMS, for what you are getting, it's a steal at MSRP.
#33
Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (Nikos)
im not gonna get deep into this one becaseu nobody has given a definitive answer but... i was browsing through the mugen catalog the other day and somehting very intesresting it said
F20C + K20A = mf204 (mugen formula 3000 motor)
so to answer your question yes it is possble wethee you can do it in your grage i doubt it. and as far as the s2000 taking to mods it is a race motor from the factory
1. extremely thin oil ring about half the size of a normal honda motor
2. thinner piston skirts
3. roller rockers instead of flat tappets for the cams
4. single valvespring (found that one odd for a 9100 redline)
5. crankshaft that ways roughly about 50 pounds
6. Rods that look better in there base quality shape (not material) then a set of ferrari rods from a 5 valve ALMS motor
There are many other thgins such as the coating that comes on the ebaring from the factory, the 2 piece oil pan design to add strength.
If anyone cars to challenge this info i will just walk down the street to the engine dyno f20c motor we have torn down right now that made 242 at the crank
thanks casey
P.S. any other internals questions for that motor id be more then happier to try and answer
Modified by eLusive Acclude at 7:42 PM 5/6/2004
F20C + K20A = mf204 (mugen formula 3000 motor)
so to answer your question yes it is possble wethee you can do it in your grage i doubt it. and as far as the s2000 taking to mods it is a race motor from the factory
1. extremely thin oil ring about half the size of a normal honda motor
2. thinner piston skirts
3. roller rockers instead of flat tappets for the cams
4. single valvespring (found that one odd for a 9100 redline)
5. crankshaft that ways roughly about 50 pounds
6. Rods that look better in there base quality shape (not material) then a set of ferrari rods from a 5 valve ALMS motor
There are many other thgins such as the coating that comes on the ebaring from the factory, the 2 piece oil pan design to add strength.
If anyone cars to challenge this info i will just walk down the street to the engine dyno f20c motor we have torn down right now that made 242 at the crank
thanks casey
P.S. any other internals questions for that motor id be more then happier to try and answer
Modified by eLusive Acclude at 7:42 PM 5/6/2004
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Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (CWESTINDC2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CWESTINDC2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you cannot put an S2000 head on a k-series motor. and you cannot put a K series head on an S2000 block. On an S2000, the cylinders, and pistons are vertically inline positioned, while on a k series block the cylinders and pistons are horizontally inline positioned. Therefore, the camshafts must be in line w/ the cylinders and pistons. Why would you want to do that anyway? K series head on an S2000 is a stupid idea. there are other ways of making more power.</TD></TR></TABLE>
can u explain this more, i dont think this would matter
can u explain this more, i dont think this would matter
#35
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Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (eLusive Acclude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eLusive Acclude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im not gonna get deep inot this one becaseu nobody has given a definitive answer but... i was browsing through the mugen catalog the other day and somehting very intesresting it said
F20C + K20A =
i believed this motor to be the v8? 302? guess not maybe new name, any info on that engine?
Modified by SikCivic at 11:41 AM 5/6/2004
F20C + K20A =
Originally Posted by eLusive Acclude
im not gonna get deep inot this one becaseu nobody has given a definitive answer but... i was browsing through the mugen catalog the other day and somehting very intesresting it said
F20C + K20A = mf204 (mugen formula 3000 motor)
so to answer your question yes it is possble wethee you can do it in your grage i doubt it. and as far as the s2000 taking to mods it is a race motor from the factory
1. extremely thin oil ring about half the size of a normal honda motor
2. thinner piston skirts
3. roller rockers instead of flat tappets for the cams
4. single valvespring (found that one odd for a 9100 redline)
5. crankshaft that ways roughly about 50 pounds
6. Rods that look better in there base quality shape (not material) then a set of ferrari rods from a 5 valve ALMS motor
There are many other thgins such as the coating that comes on the ebaring from the factory, the 2 piece oil pan design to add strength.
If anyone cars to challenge this info i will just walk down the street to the engine dyno f20c motor we have torn down right now that made 242 to the wheels
thanks casey
P.S. any other internals questions for that motor id be more then happier to try and answer</TD></TR></TABLE>
F20C + K20A = mf204 (mugen formula 3000 motor)
so to answer your question yes it is possble wethee you can do it in your grage i doubt it. and as far as the s2000 taking to mods it is a race motor from the factory
1. extremely thin oil ring about half the size of a normal honda motor
2. thinner piston skirts
3. roller rockers instead of flat tappets for the cams
4. single valvespring (found that one odd for a 9100 redline)
5. crankshaft that ways roughly about 50 pounds
6. Rods that look better in there base quality shape (not material) then a set of ferrari rods from a 5 valve ALMS motor
There are many other thgins such as the coating that comes on the ebaring from the factory, the 2 piece oil pan design to add strength.
If anyone cars to challenge this info i will just walk down the street to the engine dyno f20c motor we have torn down right now that made 242 to the wheels
thanks casey
P.S. any other internals questions for that motor id be more then happier to try and answer</TD></TR></TABLE>
i believed this motor to be the v8? 302? guess not maybe new name, any info on that engine?
Modified by SikCivic at 11:41 AM 5/6/2004
#37
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Re: (vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much is it these days for a useful hondata system? The EMS is chump change compared to a motec system, and IMO is a LOT easier to use, install, and control many more parameters. Tuning it on the other hand requires skill and patience and a good tuner. I see it as a no brainer to buy and run the EMS, for what you are getting, it's a steal at MSRP. </TD></TR></TABLE>
well, vapor how much is the EMS going for these days? i think i saw it on bulletproofautomotive for something like 1400. whats the best price you've seen for it? anyways, you can get the hondata flash for the rsx for 600, but then if you want to upgrade to the full standalone, its another 500...so 11 for a full stand alone. i'm still bewildered to why hondata hasn't realeased any kind of tuning software for the s2000.
well, vapor how much is the EMS going for these days? i think i saw it on bulletproofautomotive for something like 1400. whats the best price you've seen for it? anyways, you can get the hondata flash for the rsx for 600, but then if you want to upgrade to the full standalone, its another 500...so 11 for a full stand alone. i'm still bewildered to why hondata hasn't realeased any kind of tuning software for the s2000.
#38
Re: (SimbaDogg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SimbaDogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
well, vapor how much is the EMS going for these days? i think i saw it on bulletproofautomotive for something like 1400. whats the best price you've seen for it? anyways, you can get the hondata flash for the rsx for 600, but then if you want to upgrade to the full standalone, its another 500...so 11 for a full stand alone. i'm still bewildered to why hondata hasn't realeased any kind of tuning software for the s2000. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I've seen group buys for the EMS below bulletproof's pricing. I've seen used systems go for $800. You'll need to get the wideband o2 sensor. Bottom line, why would hondata think about making a setup for the s2k when there is the EMS?
well, vapor how much is the EMS going for these days? i think i saw it on bulletproofautomotive for something like 1400. whats the best price you've seen for it? anyways, you can get the hondata flash for the rsx for 600, but then if you want to upgrade to the full standalone, its another 500...so 11 for a full stand alone. i'm still bewildered to why hondata hasn't realeased any kind of tuning software for the s2000. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I've seen group buys for the EMS below bulletproof's pricing. I've seen used systems go for $800. You'll need to get the wideband o2 sensor. Bottom line, why would hondata think about making a setup for the s2k when there is the EMS?
#39
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Re: (vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've seen group buys for the EMS below bulletproof's pricing. I've seen used systems go for $800. You'll need to get the wideband o2 sensor. Bottom line, why would hondata think about making a setup for the s2k when there is the EMS? </TD></TR></TABLE>
used ones for 800...hell, now that aint bad. when i first heard about how great the ems was for the s2000....i loved it, and began to grow more detached from hondata. because w/ a civic/integra, its all that you ever know. but, when i saw the pricing, i damn near shat a brick. this really eases the pain quite a bit. the motec, when i saw that...i just that, forget it. a VAFC will have to do. But....the reason i wonder about hondata producing a standalone for the s2000...basically this. If they can have it do the same thing, for less...they're steal some sales. And business is always good. Plus having more than one GOOD standalone would be great for competition (just because of the motecs price, i dont even consider it a competiter even though it is...its just to much of a hit in peoples wallets) and would probably, like in other fields, bring prices down a bit.
used ones for 800...hell, now that aint bad. when i first heard about how great the ems was for the s2000....i loved it, and began to grow more detached from hondata. because w/ a civic/integra, its all that you ever know. but, when i saw the pricing, i damn near shat a brick. this really eases the pain quite a bit. the motec, when i saw that...i just that, forget it. a VAFC will have to do. But....the reason i wonder about hondata producing a standalone for the s2000...basically this. If they can have it do the same thing, for less...they're steal some sales. And business is always good. Plus having more than one GOOD standalone would be great for competition (just because of the motecs price, i dont even consider it a competiter even though it is...its just to much of a hit in peoples wallets) and would probably, like in other fields, bring prices down a bit.
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Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (JUN EK9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JUN EK9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thats just ******* sick..</TD></TR></TABLE>
#41
Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions
what freakin' tranny is on that f20c fwd
i think I wanna build a freakin civic, del sol, or crx to put in a show like that it'd pretty sick. oldskool meets newskool and you think that tranny swap could be performed on a f22c???
i think I wanna build a freakin civic, del sol, or crx to put in a show like that it'd pretty sick. oldskool meets newskool and you think that tranny swap could be performed on a f22c???
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Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (Nikos)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nikos »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here's the pic for those that have not seen a F20C with FWD tranny
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what tranny is that??
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what tranny is that??
#45
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Re: (vapor)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The s2000's ecu is not known to make benefit of increased air flow into the engine and out of it, my assumption is Honda engineered it that way to reduce the chances of engine failure due to detonation. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Makes a whole of sense since the the F20C's runs 11:0 to 1(11:5 to 1 JDM) compression and there's so much heat soak into the intake manifold.
The s2000's ecu is not known to make benefit of increased air flow into the engine and out of it, my assumption is Honda engineered it that way to reduce the chances of engine failure due to detonation. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Makes a whole of sense since the the F20C's runs 11:0 to 1(11:5 to 1 JDM) compression and there's so much heat soak into the intake manifold.
#46
Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (greenmonster)
6speed k trans. sorry to spoil your fun but only two upper bolts r on only...
the input doesn't line up with the center of the clutch..
if u do believe me ask the that posted the pic or the person who bolted the tran.
the input doesn't line up with the center of the clutch..
if u do believe me ask the that posted the pic or the person who bolted the tran.
#47
Honda-Tech Member
Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (6288 del sol)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6288 del sol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">6speed k trans. sorry to spoil your fun but only two upper bolts r on only...
the input doesn't line up with the center of the clutch..
if u do believe me ask the that posted the pic or the person who bolted the tran.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well.. you could theoretically mount the transmission alittle askew so the clutch lines up.
then fab up some sort of.. SOMETHING to get it to mount safely/solidly to the block.
the input doesn't line up with the center of the clutch..
if u do believe me ask the that posted the pic or the person who bolted the tran.</TD></TR></TABLE>
well.. you could theoretically mount the transmission alittle askew so the clutch lines up.
then fab up some sort of.. SOMETHING to get it to mount safely/solidly to the block.
#49
Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (6288 del sol)
I believe I got the picture form prototype racing... They would know. I have no clue about the story behind this picture.
#50
Re: F20C and K20A block and head Questions (Nikos)
Hello,
I'm a professional driver, I drive for honda in Peru.
I'm interested on the project of the F20 with the transmition of a K20.
I was wondering if you can teach me how to do the assembly of the F20 with the K20 transmition.
I would like to have an answer and if I could contact you via e-mail so we can talk more.
I'm a professional driver, I drive for honda in Peru.
I'm interested on the project of the F20 with the transmition of a K20.
I was wondering if you can teach me how to do the assembly of the F20 with the K20 transmition.
I would like to have an answer and if I could contact you via e-mail so we can talk more.