JDM H23A Vtec Blue Top Mystery Motor, True Facts, Questions? - Page 2 - Honda-Tech


JDM H23A Vtec Blue Top Mystery Motor, True Facts, Questions?

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Old 07-14-2008, 01:17 PM   #26
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This has already been discussed a few years ago, and some since. H23a only came with an auto trans from the factory, the importers swap on the 5spd. The F20b and H22 came with auto and manual.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:34 PM   #27
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Ah I see.....I was a bit skeptical about the whole thing since Honda Japan lists the earlier F23A versions with manual and auto options. At least I did manage to find a little more possible variations between the 4WD and FF H23As.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:42 PM   #28
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My other concern is if the Auto cams are the same as the JDM H22A 5 spd. Far as specs unlike some auto cams less agressive?
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:45 PM   #29
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no one on H-T have an H23A??? i remember seeing someone here with a built h23A. We should ask them for information
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Old 07-15-2008, 07:35 PM   #30
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I just got one for my lude. doing the swap now
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:00 PM   #31
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I got my JDM H23A Vtec Blue Top today...

It appears the following:

1) Automatic flywheel and bolts, so this case was a Auto
2) Alternator only crank pulley and No PS, you gotta be kidding me a full size Auto SIR Accord Station Wagon with no PS!!!
3) Head is stamped PDE-1 on the back and on front is PDE HF-1 year is 00 (2000) which is shared with the Euro R and Type S
hmmm I will most likely measure the cams compared to my JDM H22A to see if the Auto cams are much milder?

4) Throttle Body size on the Auto Blue Top Outside of the TB (outside where intake pipe goes on) is 2.580" = 65.53mm it does taper my guess is 2 mm so that would still make it 63mm on inside? I get 2mm because that is what has been said the typical difference is with the H22A factory TB's from outside to inside
My JDM H22A Black Top TB on outside is 2.280=57.91=58mm
5) Type AAAA pistons












Modified by ESP.net at 2:23 PM 7/18/2008
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:08 PM   #32
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It could be electric PS like the F20b. Does the crank pulley have a row for it?

That's interesting about the head stamp. Can you post pics of the intake and exhaust ports?
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:26 PM   #33
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Ill post pix as I go above are a few...

I got a JDM H22A head P13 stamped and cams so I will see if I can do a lil comparison... just let me know which pictures you'd guys like...

I first thought the injectors had a different angle but I was wrong like the Euro R

Manifold I think is the same as the Type S is my guess...

Throttle Body is larger visually then the JDM H22 one I have specs and are above...

Single Row Alt. only crank pulley, has the rubber on the outside and is probably same part # as the Euro R and F20B blue top.




Modified by ESP.net at 2:34 PM 7/18/2008
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:35 PM   #34
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Any chance you could also take of the pan and snap a few shots of the crank.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:47 PM   #35
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Yeah I plan to do that, early next week... I am not taking the baffle or pickup off though.

I'll drop the pan, take a picture check to see if the crank and rods look okay color wise and play.

I'll take the intake manifold off, post some pix of the ports, replacing TB and putting on manual tensioner off my old motor.

I have a H23A1 crank on the table so I will compare the counter weighs...
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:06 PM   #36
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As far as the Auto H23A Vtec Blue Top cams being any different then a 5 spd JDM H22A cam far as profile... I do not think so...

97-01 Auto Base Prelude, 97-01 5 spd Base Prelude, 97-01 5 spd SH Prelude

All share the same part # far as Cams... Honda for the $ would not make an Automatic cam.

More food for thought: Taken from prelude forum

Did some research- interesting... Head casting p/ns:
USDM:
93-96 VTEC Prelude: 12100-P13-000
97 Type SH Prelude: 12100-P13-000
97 Base Prelude: 12100-P5M-305
98-00 Base/SH Prelude: 12100-P5M-020

CD6 4D Accord Si-R: 12100-P13-000
CD8 2D Accord Si-R: 12100-P13-000
CL1 4D Accord Euro R: 12100-PDE-E00
CL2 Wagon Accord Si-R: 12100-PCF-010 (AWD DOHC H23A VTEC)
BB6 Prelude Si-R: 12100-P13-000

I found two for the BB6 Type S:
12100-P5P-305
12100-P5P-J01

I also found a 12100-P5M-010 for the Si-R. The second numbers appear to have come about at the same time the USDM p/n changed. I can only assume it corresponds with some minor casting change or similar.

To answer the original question, and for those to whom it is not obvious...

If you find a casting with a stamping of:

P13 = USDM H22A VTEC head or JDM Si-R 97 or earlier
P5M = USDM H22A VTEC head or JDM Si-R 98 or newer
PDE = JDM CL1 4D Accord Euro R
PCF = JDM CL2 Wagon Accord Si-R (AWD DOHC H23A VTEC)
P5P = JDM Prelude Type S or S-Spec

so it looks like this one did come off a Euro R. Also, the LMAs changed in 98 from the "assembly" to the spring. Oddly, the rockers changed in '97 but I'm not sure why or what the change was.




Modified by ESP.net at 3:31 PM 7/18/2008
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:41 PM   #37
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"PDE" as a head casting number is, I think, just a late model H22 head code. You can find it on US and JDM engines.

I'd imagine it's electric PS like the others.

precord96 did talk about his H23's cams, although not in extensive detail.
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Old 07-18-2008, 02:53 PM   #38
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Is your 01's head marked PDE?
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:00 PM   #39
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Yes PDE just appears to be a head code looked at it some more...

The TB plastic on one side in white reads PCF and on the other side in graved in the plastic says PCB. The cam tops near the dizzy on int and exh read P13-1



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Old 07-18-2008, 03:41 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinuneuro
Is your 01's head marked PDE?
Yeah, it was.

edit:
And the serial number on the timing cover is afaik the way to actually tell these things. ie,
F20B - PCB
H22A "R" - PCD
H23A - PCF
4g H22 - P13
Base H22A - P5M
ATTS H22A - P5P


Modified by A Blue Lude at 4:50 PM 7/18/2008


Modified by A Blue Lude at 4:50 PM 7/18/2008
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:49 PM   #41
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Default Re: (A Blue Lude)

Wow, I missed a lot. I can post a pic of the exposed crank, but I don't want to thread jack.

Finally some the stampings are being compared side to side. I guess I didn't even realized I was a bit mixed up on some of them until now. Good stuff. Mine came without a head, so it's still a subject of interest for me. Just for the sake of having it completely on record.

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Old 07-19-2008, 04:09 AM   #42
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Default Re: (Televator)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Televator
Wow, I missed a lot. I can post a pic of the exposed crank, but I don't want to thread jack.

Finally some the stampings are being compared side to side. I guess I didn't even realized I was a bit mixed up on some of them until now. Good stuff. Mine came without a head, so it's still a subject of interest for me. Just for the sake of having it completely on record.
by all means, post up!!
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:02 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Televator
Wow, I missed a lot. I can post a pic of the exposed crank, but I don't want to thread jack.

Finally some the stampings are being compared side to side. I guess I didn't even realized I was a bit mixed up on some of them until now. Good stuff. Mine came without a head, so it's still a subject of interest for me. Just for the sake of having it completely on record.
By all means post!

Here is some more fun facts about the 98+ Accord:

1. Sport4WD Sportier Wagon 4WD AT Gasoline 2258 H23A GH-CL2
2. SiR 4WD Wagon 4WD AT Gasoline 2258 H23A GH-CL2
3. SportSportier Wagon FF AT Gasoline 2258 H23A GH-CH9
4. 2.3VTL 4WD Wagon 4WD AT Gasoline 2253 F23A LA-CF7
5. SiR Wagon FF AT Gasoline 2258 H23A GH-CH9
6. 2.3vi 4WD Wagon 4WD AT Gasoline 2253 F23A LA-CF7
7. 2.3VTL Wagon FF AT Gasoline 2253 F23A LA-CF6
8. 2.3vi Wagon FF AT Gasoline 2253 F23A LA-CF6
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:09 AM   #44
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It's not much. It comes from the thread I linked earlier actually.



Funny how the Chassis code includes the CL2. The Accord ero R (H22) being a CL1 and Honda JP no longer listing either car in the online record.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:48 PM   #45
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Here is some pictures of the H23A Vtec Blue Top Crank and Rods. Girdle is labeled PT0. Each Rod is labeled PDE-3. Each Rod uses a bolt with nothing on the other end. Just threaded through into the Rod on the other side. No oil squirters like we know.

I was ****'d cuz there was no oil pan gasket and someone used a thick coat of honda bond as the fixed no fun cleaning off.

At this point I personally cannot see a difference between the H23A1 Crank and the H23A Vtec Crank I had them side by side to compare.






As you can see below a uses a bolt on this side going in...
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:31 PM   #46
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Well for one thing, the H23a crank has drill holes in the counterweights from balancing, like the H22 and unlike the H23a1. I'd really like to see one out of the block to see if it's structurally any different than an H23a1 crank. I've read a few archived posts that say that it looks more like an H22 crank, but the pictures were down.

Are you sure about the nut-less con rods? The only other Honda engines to use a such a design are the F20b and F20/22c. That's a pretty extreme engineering measure to reduce weight. I mean the H23a only revs about 500rpm farther than the H23a1.
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Old 07-20-2008, 05:20 PM   #47
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More pictures and info: Swaped to manual tensioner conversion after pix and Prelude engine bracket.

Water pump has the same part # 26T P13 as my jdm H22A and same wheel number #PT2. Long story short had to swap them. Pulleys have same # of splines 26 as well.

Balance shaft belt # is the same as my JDM H22A #405 PT0 004
H23A Vtec Timing Belt #14400 P13 004 my new belt and old JDM H22A #14400 P13 014

Timing Belt Plastic on top reads PCB as stated before and bottom half is P13. The reason P13 top half wasn't used is because one of the bolt prevision on the cover is much higher probably same as the F20B. This is because of the Accord engine bracket.

Correct the Rod bolts do not have anything on the other side material is there on the rod unlike a regular H rod with a stud on that end that has material taken out for it. It is threaded in.

The H23A1 crank that I personally took out of an engine and the H23A Vtec both have balancing holes on the weights... They look to be the same from visual. However this is a 55mm main.

I do not know if JDM H22A OBD2 engines have crank angle sensor? Just to state this doesnt have one.








Modified by ESP.net at 6:56 PM 7/20/2008
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Old 07-20-2008, 06:03 PM   #48
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Cam gears on the H23A Vtec read P13 even tho looks more like P16

I did a visual comparance with the JDM H22A cams that I have and the H23A Vtec ones with the lobes. Lobes look to be the same.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:02 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP.net
I do not know if JDM H22A OBD2 engines have crank angle sensor? Just to state this doesnt have one.
I don't think they do.


Good info.
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Old 07-20-2008, 09:51 PM   #50
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Can you or anyone else reading this get a pic up of an H23A1 crank? In the threads some of the differences between it and the H22 crank have been arguable, but the pictures were all down as well. This is getting interesting, but from what pics I have managed to see the A1 crank seemed smaller in all aspects accept the rod journals and added the 95 stroke. Maybe If we could get some visual measurements. Some pics with slide caliper for example. Looking at different pics around the web fall short of a clear indicator.


Modified by Televator at 10:57 PM 7/20/2008
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