marsjnj

Hi All, I'm working on my daughters 1996 Civic EX with automatic trans. The distributor was bad and the car wouldn't start so I replaced the distributor. The car now starts ok but the starter will not disengage. I'm thinking that she ran the starter for too long and maybe overheated it and locked something. I had the starter tested and it works fine and the solenoid retracts as it should. I replaced the entire ignition switch, which I now think was unnecessary. I checked voltage at the small wire that connects to the starter and it is getting voltage in both the II and III key positions. Seems it should only get voltage in the III position. I did recore the ignition to fit the old key and I'm pretty sure I put it together properly. So the question is: Is there a starter relay that could possibly be internally welded open/closed or could the starter cut relay have anything to do with this? Thanks, Jim

belairbrian

No relay involved.

marsjnj

Unfortunately the text on the diagram is too fuzzy to read even when zoomed. Is the starter cut relay only on the manual transmission? I checked the back of the ignition switch and the yellow wire is hot in the II position and no voltage in the III position which I assume is correct and working as it should.

Former User

Correct. Should only get voltage in ON(III), not ON(II). What were the voltage readings and exactly how did you do the tests?

marsjnj

Ok, I did the Ignition-Switch test for continuity from the online manual I now have. The switch checked out ok. I should point out that the car starts in both the II and III key positions. So there is voltage going to the BLK/WHT wire in position II and I'm pretty sure it shouldn't have voltage.. hence the starter never disengages. Jim

belairbrian

The problem is the factory manual tests to see if power is getting everywhere it is supposed to but does not check to see if it is getting where it should not.

Try these two tests.
Disconnect the ignition switch set it to position II check for continuity between the white wire and the black/white wire.

or

Disconnect the shift position/neutral start switch, key to position II check for 12v on the black/white wire.

If either is yes the ignition switch is bad or there is a short in the wiring harness in the steering column.

marsjnj

Performed both tests, position II, no continuity between WHT and BLK/WHT wire. Unplugged Neutral switch and no 12V to BLK/WHT wire in position II but there is 12V in position III. Took the starter out earlier and had it tested, all was good. I'm still suspecting that when my daughter cranked it excessively when the Distributor was bad it may have over heated or damaged something somewhere, likely between the switch & starter. I wish I would have used this site before I spent over a hundred bucks on a ignition switch :-)

tony_2018

So what you're saying is it constantly keeps cranking the car when the key is in both key positions? Check the starter signal wire for continuity to BLK/WHT?

marsjnj

Unplugged the 14P connector from the A/T gear position switch today and performed continuity test between terminals according to table on page 23-154. Everything checked out fine. I guess the next step will be pulling things apart under the dash and see if anything looks funny.

belairbrian

based on there being 12v at the neutral start switch in position III but not position II, the problem is past the neutral starter switch. That would mean you would have to have a short between the wire from the neutral starter switch and a wire live in position II.

With everything connected except the neutral starter switch. Ignition switch in position II does the car attempt to start?

Former User

The OP has never posted the voltage readings at the starter solenoid with the key in ON(II) versus ON(III).

marsjnj

belairbrian, Yes the car starts in position II with the neutral start switch disconnected.

RonJ@HT, There is 12V at the starter solenoid in both the II and III key positions.

Former User

What's the voltage reading at the Blk/Red wire (pin 11) in ON(II)?

marsjnj

12V

Former User

Leave C433 unplugged, and now unplug C101.

Turn key to ON(II). Measure voltage at pin 9 on both the male and female side of C101. Which side if any has voltage at pin 9?

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Op you have a wire possibly burnt in your harness making contact with the starter telay signal cable

What i would do is remove the wht/blk wire that goes to the starter relay

Then check for continuity at the blk/ylw distributor power cable

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Did you buy the keyswitch new?

Just read the part about you messing with it

Im pretty confident your problem is there

Ron can maybe post what color wires are the 12v in and acc, on and starter output colors

marsjnj

No voltage on either side of pin 9 in position II. There is voltage on the female side of pin 10 (BLK/YEL)

With C433 unplugged I pushed C101 back together and the starter turned over (Position II)

marsjnj

Yes I bought the switch new, it's wired exactly as the old one. The reason I replaced the old one was because the of the starting in position II and III problem and the solenoid not retracting, but the switch has proven to not be the problem.

Former User

How did you do the voltage test? Details. Redo the pin 9 voltage tests.

This^ tells you that the female side (Blk/Red) almost surely had voltage.

If you remove dash fuse 31, does reconnecting C101 with the key in ON(II) no longer cause the starter to crank?

Former User

Expected.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

New oem or aftermarket

marsjnj

Unplugged the BLK/WHT wire from the starter solenoid. Unplugged C101 and checked for continuity between pin 9 (BLK/WHT) and pin 10 (BLK/YEL). There was no continuity between the pins. Also checked for continuity between pin 9 and all the other pins in C101 and there was none.

marsjnj

I did the voltage test with a analog multimeter. I redid the pin 9 voltage test, even stuck the probe directly into the BLK/RED wire and still no voltage. I can't find a chart anywhere that shows me which fuse is 31. I did a lot of searching and think it's 7.5A but I don't know where in the under dash fuse box it resides.

marsjnj

Import Direct brand from O'reillys. OE Replacement part 18-0397, Ignition Lock Assembly, made in Taiwan so it's gotta be good! The only thing I did was pull the key core and slip the pins in from my old core so it would fit my old key. The 5 pin connector was different but I pulled the 3 wires (wht/blk, yel & blk/yel) and positioned them the same as the original connector and made sure the 7pin connector matched as well. Again, this is the exact same problem as my original switch and that's why I mistakenly replaced it.