gsrcivic619

How's it going guys, I was driving my car last night when I suddenly began hearing a knocking sound coming from my motor. I pulled over, popped the hood and checked my oil. My motor was dry. No oil what so ever. I'm guessing it's rod knock. I put oil in my car and my car turned on. When idle my car makes no knocking sound whatsoever but as soon as i give it gas it knocks. My car no longer starts by key. I've been having to pop start my car. Not sure why this is? It makes a loud noise when i try starting my car. Would this be rod knock? Valves? Thanks guys.

gsrcivic619

bump

Luserkid

Depending on how loud the noise is you could very well have rod knock. In which case i would stop driving the car right away, pull the pan and check your rods.

gsrcivic619

So should i pull the oil pan and check for metal shavings inside the pan or what exactly would i be pulling the pan for?

Luserkid

Depending on the motor your going to have to pull the pan, then pull the gridle (if one applies), and see if you could move the rod cap by hand. If you can then its more then likely a spun bearing on that rod. If its extreme movement then more then likely the crank is gone.

gsrcivic619

so regardless i'm going to have to pull the motor and replace the block right?

Luserkid

Well if theres no bad bearings then theres no reason to and your going to have to look somewhere else for the knock. But thats a far away bright side in your situation, more then likely your block is trash and im just trying to give you hope.

gsrcivic619

ha thanks a lot man.

Uncle Ben's

Bump for a similar problem. Here's the deal:

Car is a bone stock 98 EX. I check the oil once every 1-2k miles, and throughout the first two oil changes, it burned about one quart, which isn't bad. Now, on my third oil cycle, I check the oil level and it is barely at the bottom of the dipstick, well below the second dot. I put a quart of oil in, and the first chance I got that day I changed the oil. I only got 2.25 quarts out, which means at that point I was down to 1.25 quarts of oil No oil light, CEL, nothing; it's a good thing I check the oil when I do, it probably would have been bone dry by the time the 3 months was done.
Recently, I have heard a tapping sound coming from the engine, but only when it is at normal operating temp, and idling at 700 rpms. I can't hear it at all when I am driving, just when idling. It seems a little more prevalent from the bottom end, but its not overwhelmingly louder when I listen from under the car versus above the engine bay. It has been doing this for a while, probably close to 1000 miles; if it was a bad bearing wouldn't it have puked a rod by now? I do know it has needed a valve adjustment for a little while, but then again this noise seems like it is in addition to the valves ticking. I have never heard a rod knock, so I don't know how to identify it. If I had to guess, I would think the sound would be louder than this, and audible at all rpms, especially as you rev/load the engine. It runs fine, doesn't seem to be losing power, and like I said before, not a single goddamn oil light or code has ever came on, and I scanned the ECU just in case, and there isn't anything stored. Also, after searching through other posts on this subject, I pulled each plug wire while running the engine, and the noise didn't go away when I disabled any of the cylinders. Also, I didn't see any metal shavings at all when I changed the oil last week.


Modified by Uncle Ben's at 2:00 AM 10/29/2007

Uncle Ben's

This is recorded from above the engine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_M0b7aUWBU

This is recorded from below the oil pan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1uOrupuqes

This is ******* gay. I hope I have to get the valves adjusted, and not have to look for a shortblock/engine swap


Modified by Uncle Ben's at 12:07 AM 10/29/2007

Uncle Ben's

Probot

OP: sounds like the same issue i had a few months ago - the knocking sound is just gonna get worse and eventually the motor will blow if you keep driving it. if you have a D series it isn't TOO much money at all to get a new motor and i guess its the same if you have a B series (shouldn't be too costly compared to a complete swap) - if you want to be certain about your motor have someone listen to it that would know the sound or chance driving it to a mechanic - good luck dude

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsrcivic619 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So should i pull the oil pan and check for metal shavings inside the pan or what exactly would i be pulling the pan for?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do not waste any time pulling anything apart on that engine. Here's what you need to do:

1. Have someone familiar with engines, hopefully Honda/Acura engines, take a listen to your engine and confirm that it's a rod knocking noise

2. If it is a rod knocking BUY ANOTHER ENGINE - PERIOD

If there is a rod knocking then that means the crankshaft is damaged where the rod/bearing damage is, and you'd have to completely tear the engine apart, send the block/crank, new rods, etc. etc. and have machine work done, usually oversize bearings (not a great idea), and by the time you've spent the extra time and a lot of money on "fixing" your old engine you could have swapped in another.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Uncle Ben’s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is recorded from above the engine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_M0b7aUWBU

This is recorded from below the oil pan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1uOrupuqes

This is ******* gay. I hope I have to get the valves adjusted, and not have to look for a shortblock/engine swap


Modified by Uncle Ben's at 12:07 AM 10/29/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

The audio isn't as clear as real-time obviously, so it's very hard to make sense of the noises.

You need to check to see if you have any oil LEAKS before you write the oil loss off as consumption though. Many people have leaks that they don't see dripping on the ground because some leaks only leak while th engine runs, then the oil blows under the car and doesn't touch the ground.

...but if you have no sizable oil leaks, the the engine must be using oil.

If that engine is consuming as much as oil you're losing then I think you'd be better off saving for another engine. you can spend the money for someone to adjust the valvs if you want to, and it may soften noises from that engine, but it ain't going to reduce oil consumption.

IMO the 96-00 D series engines suck. My shop has seen far more knocking 96-00 D series engines than all of the 88-95 ones COMBINED. I think they have a fauly oiling system in either the pump, passages, etc.

The shitty part is that if you swap in a "low mileage" D16Y8 swap you might just be tossing on an expensive band-aid that may just buy you a year or two more.

I'm a big D series fan, but not of the Y series, so I'm actually going to be that guy to suggest a B swap of any kind if nothing more than to have a stronger engine internally. The power and torque are a bonus at this point.

Uncle Ben's

It pisses me off that there isn't a warning; I wouldn't be surprised if no light came on when the engine runs bone dry of oil.

Some other information; when I first noticed it burning about a quart, I did a compression test and it came back perfect, 180 across all four. Also, during the past four weeks I've noticed the gas mpg has gone down noticeably, from about 35 to barely 30. I don't get it, wouldn't a rod knock be louder as the rpms/load increases? That's what my logic tells me, but I could be wrong.

I have heard bad things about the oil systems in y8s also; most d series turbo guys choose to use z6s even in EKs and EFs. It figures, as soon as I get a decent amount of money saved up for a project, I have to throw it all at this thing

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMO the 96-00 D series engines suck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I totally agree. I just put a used D16Y7 shortblock into a 96 and they also suck to work on IMO. It was more of a hassel than putting B16 into my 92 CX, which was childs play.

Uncle Ben's, I also recomend a B-series engine. They are made better and are actually fun to drive and they get great fuel economy.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Uncle Ben’s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It pisses me off that there isn't a warning; I wouldn't be surprised if no light came on when the engine runs bone dry of oil. </TD></TR></TABLE>

At my shop we call the oil light the "too late" light because it only comes on when it's too late. Hell some knockers come in with no oil light on at all.

Honda and the people who repair them would lose a ton of engine sales if they had engineered an oil light to actually prewarn driver's of their oil levels being half low. some ignorant people would ingore the light, sure, but I've done swaps in cars of intelligent people who would have saved their engines had the oil light warned them in time.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some other information; when I first noticed it burning about a quart, I did a compression test and it came back perfect, 180 across all four. Also, during the past four weeks I've noticed the gas mpg has gone down noticeably, from about 35 to barely 30. I don't get it, wouldn't a rod knock be louder as the rpms/load increases? That's what my logic tells me, but I could be wrong. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The Y series engines are noisier than other D engines. Some of the 96-02 F series Accords are also noisier too. Sounds to me like a piston slap, or wrist pin noise, which may be what you're hearing. i've seen wrist pin slapping engines run for years with zero problems, but they also were not losing at at your engine's rate either.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have heard bad things about the oil systems in y8s also; most d series turbo guys choose to use z6s even in EKs and EFs. It figures, as soon as I get a decent amount of money saved up for a project, I have to throw it all at this thing </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll say it every time - 88-89 D16A6 block is THE best SOHC block. Iron mains, beefier journals, and for some reason I don't think I've ever had to swap one for a rod knock. Broken timing belts which were customers' faults, but not for under oiling/no oil, or rod knocks.

I rebuilt a NASTY (as in it was disgusting/oily and had 250K on it) D16A6 engine for use in my own daily driver and it still runs amazingly well. Never uses oil, doesn't smoke, and turned out 250psi across all 4 cylinders after FIVE years of daily driving on it! (Those numbers reflect the higher CR I'm running due to the use of higher domed P29 pistons and a metal head gasket)

Uncle Ben's

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> (Those numbers reflect the higher CR I'm running due to the use of higher domed P29 pistons and a metal head gasket)</TD></TR></TABLE>

Speaking of which, is it true you can put some ZC pistons in a d-series and have something like 11:1 CR? Maybe I could try this if I have to replace the bottom end

Uncle Ben's

What is piston slap anyway? Is it the piston hitting valves, or hitting the walls because they are worn and clearance is more than it should be? Could that be a reason why I'm burning oil, but the compression is fine? Also I drove my car a mile today, came back and let the engine run, and it didn't leak a drop of oil on the ground, and I have never noticed it leaking; I know it's burning this oil but I have never seen any smoke at all.

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Uncle Ben’s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Speaking of which, is it true you can put some ZC pistons in a d-series and have something like 11:1 CR? Maybe I could try this if I have to replace the bottom end </TD></TR></TABLE>

You mean like these:









The little engine that beats up on LS and B16 swaps

It's a non-VTEC D16A6, so the P29 pistons are great for them. For a VTEC engine you'd want slightly less agressive domes, such as the 1986-1987 Integra pistons commonly known as the "PG6" pistons. My pistons in an otherwise stock D16Y8 net over 13.5:1CR!!! which is a recipe for disaster on pump gas. The VTEc heads have smaller combustion chambers, which greatly raise the CR.

Here was my old build topic - I had originally wanted to go VTEC head, so there's some info in that topic regarding the P29s with a VTEC head, etc.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=401854

My only issue would be that you are OBD2, which for some reason always poses problems when trying to build a tune a nice performance-oriented engine. You usually have to run a jumper harness and an OBD1 ECU to get any results without check engine lights.

Uncle Ben's

Damn. You'll never guess what I just sold... a 90 Si with a newer y7, but stock cable Si tranny. I actually had the idea to switch heads between the two civics lol, but I ran into a problem so I had to sell the hatch. The good news is, I sold it to a good friend who just removed the rust; maybe I can get it back from him. I'm only a couple of pages into your thread, but that sounds fun as hell. Expensive as hell for a d16 build(I don't get employee discounts on the parts ), but you don't see those everyday.

Well, today I drove the car over to a friend's dad, who is a backyard mechanic, and he told me it doesn't sound bad, and that I shouldn't worry about it unless it gets worse. He said his f-150 started making similar noises when he switched to synthetic, but after he started replacing some oil with Lucas oil stabilizer it eventually went away. So I guess I'll try replacing the oil filter tomorrow and put some Lucas in there, and see what happens. Also I guess it's a good idea to check the oil every week, since I drive so damn much.

Uncle Ben's

I have bad news. Today I took off the oil filter and drained it, to make room for some oil stabilizer. After draining the oil into an empty bottle, what I found on the bottom of the pan was heartbreaking... bits of silver/gold metal all over the bottom, some the size of the tip of a pencil lead

Uncle Ben's

Well, since I have a few days off, I will take off my oil pan tomorrow and take a look see. Is there anything I should be looking for, besides seeing if there is play with the rods/crankshaft?

96teggylsse

not really... just check and see if there is play in the rods... if so then get a new motor.... dont try to rebuild that pos motor.. they suck... ive blown two of them ... but never a z6 or b16.... sorry for your loss

Uncle Ben's

Yeah the noise has gotten slightly worse. It's been running fine for over 1k miles since the noise started. I'm trying to get an LS swap, maybe even a GSR if I can get one cheap enough.