JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mouth
12-18-2009, 03:11 PM
#1
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JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mouth
After going through the extremely frustrating process of sorting through the speculative posts on HT (often with conflicting info) on whether JDM B-series engines can be REF'd in California, I decided to contact the California BAR myself. I didn't talk to the person on the 800 number...I specifically asked to speak to a tech in the field that actually refs motor swaps. I spoke to a very helpful Ref in Fairfield and asked him if I can or cannot get a JDM B-series motor reffed in my 92 hatch. His response?
No. If a ref sees a JDM B-series motor in your EG Civic, they will close your hood and politely send you on your way. Doesn't matter how clean an install it is or if all of the smog equipment is in place. He went on to say that this "rule" has changed 4 times in the past 3 years, so it's very possible that it will change again and they'll start reffing JDM B-series motors sometime in the future, but he said he had no idea if/when that will happen.
So, if you're looking to do a JDM B-series swap into an EG Civic and want to get it ref'd, better think again. At least do it after you get smogged with your D-series motor so you get 2 years to wait around for the rules to bounce back.
Now, I know someone is going to post and say "BS, my cousin just got his JDM B18C ref'd last week, blah blah blah". To those people, I say that the Refs know their job and they know that they're not supposed to ref these motors. If they did ref a JDM swap, they either were clueless or they were doing someone a favor. Either way, they're risking their jobs. And in this economy, you'll be hard pressed to find someone with a good, steady job willing to risk it, even for a buddy.
While you may find a guy that will do it for you, the odds are very high that you'll get turned away. The risk is yours to take.
fm
No. If a ref sees a JDM B-series motor in your EG Civic, they will close your hood and politely send you on your way. Doesn't matter how clean an install it is or if all of the smog equipment is in place. He went on to say that this "rule" has changed 4 times in the past 3 years, so it's very possible that it will change again and they'll start reffing JDM B-series motors sometime in the future, but he said he had no idea if/when that will happen.
So, if you're looking to do a JDM B-series swap into an EG Civic and want to get it ref'd, better think again. At least do it after you get smogged with your D-series motor so you get 2 years to wait around for the rules to bounce back.
Now, I know someone is going to post and say "BS, my cousin just got his JDM B18C ref'd last week, blah blah blah". To those people, I say that the Refs know their job and they know that they're not supposed to ref these motors. If they did ref a JDM swap, they either were clueless or they were doing someone a favor. Either way, they're risking their jobs. And in this economy, you'll be hard pressed to find someone with a good, steady job willing to risk it, even for a buddy.
While you may find a guy that will do it for you, the odds are very high that you'll get turned away. The risk is yours to take.
fm
12-18-2009, 04:08 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
What I want to know is, why the hell has the law changed four times in three years?
12-18-2009, 04:14 PM
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12-18-2009, 05:24 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
12-18-2009, 05:48 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
jdm engines may be used as a replacement engine so if your car came with or has already been bar'd you may use a jdm engine
12-18-2009, 05:55 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
What i have learned from the "tech guys" on the phone is that they are not actual ref that test the car. They are guy behind a desk that get there answer out of a book. I asked a question about one car I was passing as I was missing a sensor but didnt know what and the guy didnt have a clue and his only answer was "the motor has to have all the sensors of the year of the engine in which its going to be in the car". I said screw that and went to a station and the guy was able to help me to get the sensor I needed. I have passed countless JDM motors into cars. 94 JDM GSR into a 93 coupe (my personal car), a 00 JDM ITR motor into a 99 Civic, 97 JDM GSR into a 92 Hatch, and am working on a 01 Euro R into a 92 Hatch (the one I was missing a sensor for). So whoever you talked to is off his rocker!
JDM motors are passed as replacement motors. All you do is put all the USDM smog equipment on that belongs for that motor. If you have say an 00 GSR going into a 92 hatch then you put all the equipment thats needed for a 94-95 GSR and pass the motor as a 94-95. All they are worried about is the motor being newer then the car.
JDM motors are passed as replacement motors. All you do is put all the USDM smog equipment on that belongs for that motor. If you have say an 00 GSR going into a 92 hatch then you put all the equipment thats needed for a 94-95 GSR and pass the motor as a 94-95. All they are worried about is the motor being newer then the car.
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12-18-2009, 08:53 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
Just for clarification, I didn't speak to a "phone tech". I told the person on the phone I wanted to be connected to an actual REF station. They said they would have one call me back. I spoke to a tech at the Fairfield ref station. These were his statements, not the droid on the phone.
As I expected, someone piped up with "of course you can BAR JDM motors in cars". I still stand by my statement...it's a risk every time. You obviously have a good relationship with your REF, but I would like to take bets on what would happen if you were to go to a different REF station.
fm
As I expected, someone piped up with "of course you can BAR JDM motors in cars". I still stand by my statement...it's a risk every time. You obviously have a good relationship with your REF, but I would like to take bets on what would happen if you were to go to a different REF station.
fm
12-18-2009, 09:14 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
Waz up guys,
This is a really good subject. My buddy has a 92 civic hatch with a jdm b16. He got pulled over about a month ago and received a ref ticket. I went to the ref for him after we replace the intake manifold and ecu with a p30 US del sol ecu and manifold, and got a working cat, the tech guy did not care if it was a jdm motor all he asked was if it was ok if he bard the car as a 94 1.6 del sol motor. We said ok and lucky for us the cat was good and my friend recieved his bar sticker.
We took the car to mira mar ref station, which is an official california station.....
This is a really good subject. My buddy has a 92 civic hatch with a jdm b16. He got pulled over about a month ago and received a ref ticket. I went to the ref for him after we replace the intake manifold and ecu with a p30 US del sol ecu and manifold, and got a working cat, the tech guy did not care if it was a jdm motor all he asked was if it was ok if he bard the car as a 94 1.6 del sol motor. We said ok and lucky for us the cat was good and my friend recieved his bar sticker.
We took the car to mira mar ref station, which is an official california station.....
12-18-2009, 09:20 PM
#11
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
Perhaps we should start a new thread:
REF stations that will BAR JDM engines
fm
REF stations that will BAR JDM engines
fm
12-18-2009, 10:27 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
i got my jdm gsr to pass in my 98 cx hatch and my buddy got a jdm b16 to pass in his crx..both passed in 2009
12-18-2009, 10:37 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
TOTAL CRAP
I got a 95 hatch with a 95 gsr and I got it reffed with the BAR # as a matter a fact I got my honda smogged with the motor
he called into the state to see if all my dc headers and intake and motor is legit and I PASSED
you cant reff a b20, lsvtec b18c and other real jdm motors
I got a 95 hatch with a 95 gsr and I got it reffed with the BAR # as a matter a fact I got my honda smogged with the motor
he called into the state to see if all my dc headers and intake and motor is legit and I PASSED
you cant reff a b20, lsvtec b18c and other real jdm motors
12-19-2009, 12:20 AM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
So I know mine is a D-Series, but its a JDM D15B, which is illegal in CA.
Got a ref ticket, and my ref said I had to make it either a D15Z1 by replacing the intake manifold with a US one, which has an egr valve,
or make it a D15B7, by taking off VTEC and replacing the ecu.
I failed inspection from a jdm motor, AND IT WASNT EVEN A B-SERIES.
Also, its a replacement motor.
I guess it just all depends on which ref you go to. :/
Got a ref ticket, and my ref said I had to make it either a D15Z1 by replacing the intake manifold with a US one, which has an egr valve,
or make it a D15B7, by taking off VTEC and replacing the ecu.
I failed inspection from a jdm motor, AND IT WASNT EVEN A B-SERIES.
Also, its a replacement motor.
I guess it just all depends on which ref you go to. :/
12-19-2009, 12:26 AM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
So I know mine is a D-Series, but its a JDM D15B, which is illegal in CA.
Got a ref ticket, and my ref said I had to make it either a D15Z1 by replacing the intake manifold with a US one, which has an egr valve,
or make it a D15B7, by taking off VTEC and replacing the ecu.
I failed inspection from a jdm motor, AND IT WASNT EVEN A B-SERIES.
Also, its a replacement motor.
I guess it just all depends on which ref you go to. :/
Got a ref ticket, and my ref said I had to make it either a D15Z1 by replacing the intake manifold with a US one, which has an egr valve,
or make it a D15B7, by taking off VTEC and replacing the ecu.
I failed inspection from a jdm motor, AND IT WASNT EVEN A B-SERIES.
Also, its a replacement motor.
I guess it just all depends on which ref you go to. :/
passing BAR really isnt as hard as people make it seem.
12-19-2009, 07:36 AM
#16
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
$100 bucks says you bring your car to me, i look it over to make sure it passes visual, take it to a pre test to make sure the cars running correctly and we both go to ANY smog station and you pass, since you dont believe me. And yes i know how they tell you its a tech guy from a station. But the master tech dont have time to talk to you on the phone unless its face to face.
Edit: Ive only taken 1 car out of the cars that i mentioned to a station. All the others were ready to go and went on there own to their local ref. You cant make "friends" with master tech's, the fined for them is WAY more then a price tag.
Edit: Ive only taken 1 car out of the cars that i mentioned to a station. All the others were ready to go and went on there own to their local ref. You cant make "friends" with master tech's, the fined for them is WAY more then a price tag.
Just for clarification, I didn't speak to a "phone tech". I told the person on the phone I wanted to be connected to an actual REF station. They said they would have one call me back. I spoke to a tech at the Fairfield ref station. These were his statements, not the droid on the phone.
As I expected, someone piped up with "of course you can BAR JDM motors in cars". I still stand by my statement...it's a risk every time. You obviously have a good relationship with your REF, but I would like to take bets on what would happen if you were to go to a different REF station.
fm
As I expected, someone piped up with "of course you can BAR JDM motors in cars". I still stand by my statement...it's a risk every time. You obviously have a good relationship with your REF, but I would like to take bets on what would happen if you were to go to a different REF station.
fm
12-19-2009, 07:42 AM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
You failed because you didnt have the USDM smog equipment, not because its a JDM motor. You need to convert it to a D15B7 (which is the easiest) like they told you. Dont forget VTEC never engages until X,XXX RPM. So you could drive under and be fine. Pretest before is what i always recommend. You did not fail because of the motor though.
So I know mine is a D-Series, but its a JDM D15B, which is illegal in CA.
Got a ref ticket, and my ref said I had to make it either a D15Z1 by replacing the intake manifold with a US one, which has an egr valve,
or make it a D15B7, by taking off VTEC and replacing the ecu.
I failed inspection from a jdm motor, AND IT WASNT EVEN A B-SERIES.
Also, its a replacement motor.
I guess it just all depends on which ref you go to. :/
Got a ref ticket, and my ref said I had to make it either a D15Z1 by replacing the intake manifold with a US one, which has an egr valve,
or make it a D15B7, by taking off VTEC and replacing the ecu.
I failed inspection from a jdm motor, AND IT WASNT EVEN A B-SERIES.
Also, its a replacement motor.
I guess it just all depends on which ref you go to. :/
12-19-2009, 07:31 PM
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Thread Starter
Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
Again, I say to you all that have BAR'd your JDM swaps after 4/09, give me the name of the place you take your JDM swaps to got your cars REF'd and I'll consider giving it a go. I think we've established that there are some places more lenient than others. But until I know for sure a REF in MY area isn't going to turn me away, I'm not dropping 2-3K on a JDM swap just to have to pull it out.
fm
fm
12-19-2009, 09:09 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
So I know mine is a D-Series, but its a JDM D15B, which is illegal in CA.
Got a ref ticket, and my ref said I had to make it either a D15Z1 by replacing the intake manifold with a US one, which has an egr valve,
or make it a D15B7, by taking off VTEC and replacing the ecu.
I failed inspection from a jdm motor, AND IT WASNT EVEN A B-SERIES.
Also, its a replacement motor.
I guess it just all depends on which ref you go to. :/
Got a ref ticket, and my ref said I had to make it either a D15Z1 by replacing the intake manifold with a US one, which has an egr valve,
or make it a D15B7, by taking off VTEC and replacing the ecu.
I failed inspection from a jdm motor, AND IT WASNT EVEN A B-SERIES.
Also, its a replacement motor.
I guess it just all depends on which ref you go to. :/
totally true and all ref places will fail you cuz its not CA approved crap so like I said jdm motors wont pass
12-19-2009, 09:41 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
So I know mine is a D-Series, but its a JDM D15B, which is illegal in CA.
Got a ref ticket, and my ref said I had to make it either a D15Z1 by replacing the intake manifold with a US one, which has an egr valve,
or make it a D15B7, by taking off VTEC and replacing the ecu.
I failed inspection from a jdm motor, AND IT WASNT EVEN A B-SERIES.
Also, its a replacement motor.
I guess it just all depends on which ref you go to. :/
Got a ref ticket, and my ref said I had to make it either a D15Z1 by replacing the intake manifold with a US one, which has an egr valve,
or make it a D15B7, by taking off VTEC and replacing the ecu.
I failed inspection from a jdm motor, AND IT WASNT EVEN A B-SERIES.
Also, its a replacement motor.
I guess it just all depends on which ref you go to. :/
I believe B16A's and GSR motors are a lot easier to get smogged since we have simuliar motors here in the States. Yes we have ITR here but the engines in Japan are higher compression different equipment and so on.
This site recently save my ****. I was looking at a DC2 with a B20B swap and if it had not been for a post I read on here I would be in for a headache right now. Idiot selling bought it as is and was doing the same thing.
12-19-2009, 09:45 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
You failed because you didnt have the USDM smog equipment, not because its a JDM motor. You need to convert it to a D15B7 (which is the easiest) like they told you. Dont forget VTEC never engages until X,XXX RPM. So you could drive under and be fine. Pretest before is what i always recommend. You did not fail because of the motor though.
Yes I did make it a B7, just switched out the ecu and unplugged the VTEC harness and i passed.
Then put VTEC back on once I passed. lolThe only thing that I think makes it not pass inspection is smog.
Like, don't certain vehicles need to be under the limit of that vehicle?
If so, wouldn't say a B18 put out more emissions that say a D15, because that car was originally made with a 1.5L, not a 1.8L?
Just thinkin...
12-19-2009, 10:15 PM
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
You did not talk to anyone knowledgeable, or you simply talked to someone who splits out FUD. This is something our government does all the time, cause all of the gullible people will simply believe it.
You can however always find out the truth.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm
You can however always find out the truth.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/replace.htm
Replacement Engines
Entire engines can be replacement parts. As with any other replacement part, the engine must be identical to the original. If the replacement block or engine is obtained without emissions equipment, all the equipment from the original engine must be installed on the replacement block.
If the engine is not identical to the original then it is not a replacement part, instead it is considered an engine change.
Engine changes are a modification that must meet certain requirements to be legal (please see "Engine Changes").
Japanese Replacement Engines
Used engines imported from Japan can be used as replacement engines as long as the engine being used has been identified as functionally identical to the original engine. Please refer to the engine importers catalogue to determine if a replacement engine is legal for installation in your vehicle.
Engine Changes
Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:
* The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.
* The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.
* If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.
* All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.
* Vehicles converted to 100% electric drive, with all power supplied by on-board batteries are considered in compliance with the engine change requirements. All fuel system components must be removed prior to inspection. For additional information contact the ARB helpline at (800) 242-4450
After an engine change, vehicles must first be inspected by a state referee station. The vehicle will be inspected to ensure that all the equipment required is in place, and vehicle will be emissions tested subject to the specifications of the installed engine.
Entire engines can be replacement parts. As with any other replacement part, the engine must be identical to the original. If the replacement block or engine is obtained without emissions equipment, all the equipment from the original engine must be installed on the replacement block.
If the engine is not identical to the original then it is not a replacement part, instead it is considered an engine change.
Engine changes are a modification that must meet certain requirements to be legal (please see "Engine Changes").
Japanese Replacement Engines
Used engines imported from Japan can be used as replacement engines as long as the engine being used has been identified as functionally identical to the original engine. Please refer to the engine importers catalogue to determine if a replacement engine is legal for installation in your vehicle.
Engine Changes
Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:
* The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.
* The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.
* If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.
* All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.
* Vehicles converted to 100% electric drive, with all power supplied by on-board batteries are considered in compliance with the engine change requirements. All fuel system components must be removed prior to inspection. For additional information contact the ARB helpline at (800) 242-4450
After an engine change, vehicles must first be inspected by a state referee station. The vehicle will be inspected to ensure that all the equipment required is in place, and vehicle will be emissions tested subject to the specifications of the installed engine.
12-20-2009, 07:48 AM
#23
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Thread Starter
Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
Japanese Replacement Engines
Used engines imported from Japan can be used as replacement engines as long as the engine being used has been identified as functionally identical to the original engine. Please refer to the engine importers catalogue to determine if a replacement engine is legal for installation in your vehicle.
Used engines imported from Japan can be used as replacement engines as long as the engine being used has been identified as functionally identical to the original engine. Please refer to the engine importers catalogue to determine if a replacement engine is legal for installation in your vehicle.
Also, I'm not saying that none of the JDM swaps you see in EG Civics are illegal...I'm quite aware that people have BAR'd these swaps in EG Civics in the past. The issue is NOW, I'm being told by a REF that they will not BAR JDM DOHC motors in an EG Civic.
The guy I spoke with called me from the REF station in Fairfield. I could hear stuff going on in the background (cars running, being tested), so I'm sure it wasn't a paper-pusher from the state. I specifically asked him if he was the one that actually REFs the cars and he said yes. I suppose he could have been lying, but I don't see why he would have been.
And nobody has stepped up and listed a station that is JDM-engine friendly.
fm
12-20-2009, 08:02 AM
#24
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Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
The guy I spoke with called me from the REF station in Fairfield. I could hear stuff going on in the background (cars running, being tested), so I'm sure it wasn't a paper-pusher from the state. I specifically asked him if he was the one that actually REFs the cars and he said yes. I suppose he could have been lying, but I don't see why he would have been.
And nobody has stepped up and listed a station that is JDM-engine friendly.
fm
And nobody has stepped up and listed a station that is JDM-engine friendly.
fm
Since you dont have a swap at all and havent even TRY to BAR it, i suggest you stop spreading false information about this. I get cars ready all the time for BAR, thats how i made my living. Not so much now as before due to switching fields but i still help out when asked.
Last edited by Luserkid; 12-20-2009 at 08:12 AM. Reason: forgot to add bakersfield to the list.
12-20-2009, 08:29 AM
#25
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Thread Starter
Re: JDM B-series engines in EG Civics legality in CA - straight from the horse's mout
OK, assuming I wasn't talking to anyone who was of importance, how does one go about getting the exact location of a REF (without getting an appt)? I tried to get the contact info for the REF in my area, but they wouldn't give it out over the phone. My original plan was to go in and talk to someone in person, but the BAR wouldn't give me the contact info. :/
Anyway, I'm glad to hear you've been successful at passing JDM swaps in SoCal. Hopefully NorCal has REFs that see things the same way.
fm
Anyway, I'm glad to hear you've been successful at passing JDM swaps in SoCal. Hopefully NorCal has REFs that see things the same way.
fm