ZaRRicK

Hello everyone!
This is my first post here, and unfortunately it is not pleasant! I've been reading the forum for quite some time now and I know that this place has some very proven honda gurus, who I hope will be able to help me!

The car is a 2000 Honda Civic VTi EK4 1.6 VTEC DOHC B16A2, fully stock. It was working properly without any problems except for the broken catalyst (it has a crack and blows gas from there).

The problem happened about a month ago, but because of the holidays I just didn't have the time and knoledge to solve it! I last drove the car on the 15th of Dec in a pouring rain. The same day the rain turned into snow and in the evening I went down to park it in front of the house, for it was across the street. The car started with no problem from the first turn of the starter motor as usual, parked it, locked the alarm and went home. The next day decidet to clean it from the snow and tried to start it. Thats where the problem occured:

The car refused to start. I turn the key on to position II-ignition and wait for the lights on the dash to go off, I hear the fuel pump clicks twice same as usual. The only different thing is that the green key-like light next to the battery light doesn't go off, but starts to blink. So the immobiliser is activated somehow and when I turn the ignition key to position III to start the car, the starter motor cranks but the injectors don't pump fuel into the system. Obviously the car immo doesn't recognize the chip in the keys (have a pair of original keys - both fail to start the vehicle). Unfortunately I don't have the red programming key, because the previous owner obviously switched his with the one of his buddy, so now I have a red key that is not for my car.
The thing that is bugging me is that I'm not sure of the reson why this happened just like that out of nothing. So I'm a little afraid to tow the car to the Honda dealer, because instead of trying to find the problem and what caused it and fix it by software, and I do think that this is some kind of software click, they will probably tell me that I need new immo which cost lots. But I almost out of options so sooner or later I will have to take it to the dealer.
So far I tried to disconnect the battery to restart the ECU without any result.
I also have some after-market alarm system Gamel Serpi-Star, but I dont think it is causing all that, because it is working properly and because its the factory immobiliser that is bugged (I assumed that because of the green key light on the dash that is blinking).

So guys, please, if you have any ideas of what might cause such a problem and how to fix it share it so I can enjoy the power of the VTEC again!

P.S. I hope that I described the problem clearly enough, but if you have any questions I will answer ASAP!

Deetz

Hmm, well, it does sound like a problem with the immobilizer, and the dealer will be your best bet to bet to solve the issue.

The one thing different on you car is is the immobilizer feature, no USDM civic ever had this feature during the 96-00 years, Europe was ahead of us then. I have a owners manual from Europe with your car, it looks to be the older sytle system that uses a red key for reprogramming, you will need that.

ZaRRicK

Well I don't have the red key as it turned out. Bummer! I better prepare for skinning at honda dealer

Sliced Beard

Sounds like to me your key reader took a crap. You will need to have a new one installed and all of your keys reprogrammed into the system.

Look forward to spending about $300-400.

mrharmonic

i knwo some people on hear took off the imoblizer look in to it bro and best of luck bump

ZaRRicK

Hello again, I have a little update on the situation. The car was at the honda dealer for some 10 days or so and they said that they are unable to help me. They said that the car doesn't have a red key, for it is a 2000 model and these don't have red key. It turned out that the ECU of the car is a P2T OBD2B and the immo is inbuild inside the ecu. May be thats the reason for not having a red key. Anyways I am at a dead end and start to think about replacing the whole ECU for the same but not damaged or to look for a non immo unit. So now the options are to look for the same P2T ECU with immo, transponder, locks and keys, or to look for a diffrerent ECU - a P30 is the best choise if I go for different ECU I think. In that case I'll have to switch from OBD2B to P30 OBD1.
Also I want to ask if I decide to switch to P30 can I use a JDM P30 from a SiR car. I have been told that the JDM cars have some sort of knock sensor which european cars don't have and for that reason if I put such an ECU I will have the check light on.

nikanoras

p30 is an obd1 ecu so to use it you will need a conversion harness.. you can find a jdm p2t ecu without immo which runs fine..

ZaRRicK

I found this site http://www.preludedriver.com/wiki/index.php5?title=ECU and according to it the ECU is most probably to be a:
OBD2 A 365 EDM P2T-G01 96-99 Euro Civic VTI EK4 MT, PCB Denshigiken : M1Y-C 0014T-L5000-11, no PA sensor, Knock module, Immo module
Although my car is a 2000 model.
Instead of OBD2B, which are for:
OBD2 B 933 USDM P2T-A11 99-00 Civic Si B16A3 MT, 66589, board M2Y-D 0016Z-L5004-A0 Provision for immobilizer?
OBD1 952 Oz DM P75-Q51 95 Integra B18A AT NEC B5J-D 2D190-1501

Sorry for misleading, but its the first site where a P2T is given as a OBD2A.

speedooo

any obd1 socketed ecu with a chip/tune for a b16 or a stock obd1 p30 with a stepdown harness will work. thats bs that the dealer cant help you but at the same time they could have easily charged you several hundred for an ecu that you can replace with the help of ebay.

ZaRRicK

I am so sick of incompetent service "specialists". So far I've had hit the wall everywhere I tried with the fixing of the problem, so I'm thinking to remove the damn thing (the immobiliser).

Anyone knows how to remove the immobiliser from a P2T-G** ECU?

Here are some pix of the actual ECU and transponder:


Also can anyone, please, point me which part is exactly the immo in the ECU, on the 1st pic?

Vindicator9000

Mods - please remove this post if you think it has too much potential for abuse.

I had to remove the immobilizer on my OBD2b gsr swap.

It's the chip on the top left of the first pic that runs up and down, that has a surface mounted integrated chip, and is right next to the 2 capacitors, next to where it says C9.

To remove it, take the back plate off of the ECU and *very carefully* desolder it from the back of the circuit board while gently pulling the chip out from the front.

This will cause your car to run a constant CEL for internal ECU malfunction. It will run fine otherwise, no limp mode or anything. I've been driving mine for like 2 years like this, and it runs perfectly.

To get rid of the CEL, you can do what I did - permanently mount a scantool in the DIN slot and reset the code everytime you start the car.

Or, you can replace the immobilizer with a dummy chip. I've seen them for sale on the internet, but I don't know if they work. I do know that user Katman on honda-tech has offered this service for people in the past.

ZaRRicK

So if I understood right I should remove just the chip pointed with the red arow or the whole plate in the yellow circle?


Also can you explane What does CEL means and what is the scantool thet you've used, because I am not exactly an electronic wiz. Also which DIN slot should I mount the scantool in?

Thanks!

Any other ways and suggestions are wellcome!

Vindicator9000

The whole plate circled in yellow is the immobilizer.

CEL = Check Engine Light.

Depending on what your emissions/inspection laws are, you may not be able to pass with a CEL. If that's the case, then you'll probably have to look at another solution, like the dummy chip... just turning off the CEL with a scantool usually won't get you past an inspection.

By din slot, I mean the empty cubbyhole space under the radio.

I have one of these mounted in mine:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/car/8426/

It allows me to check and clear the CEL codes after I start the car. I just mounted it in the din slot and ran the wire back behind the dash. It should plug into the OBD2 port underneath the dash to the left of the steering wheel.


If you look around on the internet, you can find dummy replacements for the immobilizer. I've seen them, but I've always been a little afraid to try them out.

bobobob

Getting in this thread since i have kinda the same problem. and need info
Bought a 99 ukdm ek4, swapped it in my 96 ek3. And need to get the immo to work!

ZaRRicK

Does anyone knows where can I get such a dummy chip and by what name exactly should I look for one round the net?

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

Just get a chipped OBD1 computer and a conversion harness. It will make your life much easier.

Katman

All of you who are saying to simply desolder this fellas IMMO chip and the car will run are ALL WRONG.

Immobilizer equipped EDM ecu's are not like US OBD2 ECU's.

Once you remove the IMMO chip in an OBD2 EDM Civic/Integra ecu, the car will STILL NOT RUN.

EDM Immobilizer "A0" chips are actually the same as US OBD2 prelude (P5M/P5P) ECU's, which do not operate like US 00-01 OBD2b integra ecu's....where you can simply remove the chip and the car will run (but with a constant CEL).

So removing the EDM IMMO chip will get you no where. You need to run an aftermarket IMMO chip (or dummy chip)....which......I sell! (see my ecu services link below) or PM me if you are interested.

nyuke

Hi guys, I kinda have the same or I should say similar problem. I got a 2000 GSR. Ignition was broken off so i ordered a new one yesterday. And I bought a new Ecu p72 OBD2B because it was stolen. I tried starting my car with the screw, the back way of ignition and the car started but it has check engine light on. Can anyone explain or tell me what this might be. Im thinking maybe its the ecu that needs to be reprogrammed with immobilzer and transponder key but im not quite sure. Any help would be appreciated.

ZaRRicK

Thanks every one for the support! My problem disappeared as misteriously as it occured!
Yesterday I decided to mount the ecu for one last trial before send to the next "wiz" and accidently the green light didn't start to blink and the car started normally. After that I have tried a few times before get it out for a spinn and the car run fine as it was never dead. So guess whatever bad linkage or smth else there was it's gone now and I hope gone for good, but you never know. Eventually one day it may decide to go bad on me again so better be prepared!
Thanks again everyone! I am truly gratefull!

Katman

you'll need to find out what the CEL code is before anyone can help you.
here's how to check a CEL:
http://ff-squad.com/technet/how-to/celcheck/

nyuke

I just got me new ignition and pluged it in. Its from a 2000 GSR which has immobilizer. The car starts after like 5 seconds of it reving first then starts. It has a Check engine light on. Code P1617. P1617, Engine Oil Level Switch Circuit. I reset is but it still comes up. I checked my engine oil etc and its all good. I believe its the Ecu. I bought a P72 OBD2B but when I start the ignition, it doesnt show the green key on cluster. I dont think immobilizer is there from what the other picture looks like above.

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nyuke

nyuke

Its Code P1607 actually!! Engine Oil Level Switch Circuit

ZaRRicK

Hello again!
After my EK4 miraculously recovered I drove the car for several weeks with no problem at all, and a few days ago it went dead on me again. Just like before, after standing outside the house, the next day it refused to start. The green immo light is blinking and the starter cranks but doesn't start.
I've had the car for over a year and it was running fantastic. Then at once this problem occured and the car didn't work for two months, then it recovered by itself, ran for several weeks and went dead again the same way it did the first time.
That leads me to think that it might not be a fault in the immobilizer unit or the ECU but a bad linkage or connection somewhere. I bought a Philips contact spray and sprayed every connector I could get my hands on in the cabin and in the engine bay and still nothing.
Please, guys tell me what you think, cause I'm desperate!!!

Vindicator9000

Thanks, I didn't know that. Sorry for posting wrong information. Katman is awesome as always.

Reminds me I still need to hit you up to get my ECU fixed one of these days. What kind of turnaround do you have?