rcharr2k9

Here goes:

1994 del Sol VTEC B16a3
Started giving me probs starting bout 6 months ago.
Replaced main relay with new oem part, worked fine for bout 2 weeks, starts again. What happens is you turn on ignition, cel stays on, no prime. Sometimes if you leave the ignition in the on position, it will eventually prime and the cel will go off as soon as it primes. Have checked fuses 18,24, and not sure which one under the hood is 31, but I was told to check it.
Here's the kicker, I have also replaced the ignitor, to no avail. I have also noticed that it doesn't matter whether it's hot or cold, but if it rains, it is sure to happen.
IF ANYONE HAS ANY IDEAS THAT I HAVEN"T TRIED, PLEASE HELP!!!

rcharr2k9

So today I started troubleshooting my problem. Started by trying to test the main relay, but with no luck. I did all the continuity tests on it that I could find, but couldn't get it to respond like the test instructions said it should, so not sure if I was doing it correctly or not. Also found that my starter relay has been bypassed, and the starter is receiving signal directly from the ignition switch. Not sure if this has anything to do with my no prime problem. Only thing I haven't check for is signal to the pump when the problem occurs, but gonna pull interior and check that, if it happens again, in the morning. Also checked wire coming from ECU to ignitor, with key in ON(II) position, it registered 0.02 VDC. Also checked coil terminals, which are supposed to be between 0.6-0.8 OHMS, but got like 1.6 OHMS of resistance. Like I said though, not sure if I was doing continuity test properly, because ALL values I was testing for were showing BAD!!
If anyone has any other ideas, PLEASE let me know!!!
If anyone knows how to get in touch with RONJ@HT, or could forward this to him, I would really like to get his input as well!!
THANX IN ADVANCE!!!

byc_cb7

triple check ur fuses, i had this problem with my sol/ it was sitin of a week. make sure there good. i think 31 was out in my car. and u really cant tell if its blown unless u pull it out. or put a test light. theats my advice to u because thats the same advice ron gave me.

rcharr2k9

yeah, checked and REPLACED 18,24, and 31. Just weird how it does sort of like a main relay. Like I said, I tried to check the main relay, dizzy, and the ecu and wiring for continuity, voltage, resistance, etc., and all tests showed bad or no values at all. The reason I'm not sure I was doing it correctly, was I tested a known good relay, and got not continuity on it! I don't know what else to do but to swap ecu and dizzy, individually, and see if that solves the problem. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY IDEAS? THANX IN ADVANCE!!

Former User

Clean the daylights out of the ground on the thermostat housing and then tighten it up.

If that doesn't help, do you have a spare ECU available to you?

rcharr2k9

Cleaned ALL, and I do mean ALL grounds. I don't as of this second, but if a neighbor of mine comes by, I will. He's got a gsr swapped hatch, so I know he's at least got a p28.
That's the only things I can think of to do.

rcharr2k9

Ron:
1.) How would I check continuity on the ecu grounds? Would I put the + lead of DMM on battery voltage and put - lead on ground pin(s) of ecu harness plugs?
2.) Not sure if you read the first post completely, but starter relay has been bypassed,the ignition switch has been replaced, and the UPPER clutch switch plastic stopper is missing, could any of these situations cause this problem?
Still haven't had the opportunity to swap the ecu or dizzy yet, but I will as soon as I get the opportunity, and I will post results.

Former User

Set the multimeter to measure resistance (Ohms) or continuity. Touch one meter probe to the metal frame under the dash and the other meter probe to a ground pin in the ECU wire harness connector.

I don't see the altered starter wires or the dizzy causing your problem.

rcharr2k9

I didn't think so either(starter/dizzy), but what about the clutch switch stopper?
OKAY! Definately wasn't performing continuity test right!! I was going by alldata's instructions/diagrams, and they were saying to test for voltage, not resistance!
I'll give it another shot and let you know what I find!!
Thanx RONJ!!!

delsolintegra

It was the starter relay on my 94 Del Sol that was bad.
The ignition switch and clutch button were OK.

I thought it was my goofy alarm system, but it wasn't that.

rcharr2k9

All ecu wires showed up good. Not sure what else I can do but try swapping out ecu's.
If that doesn't solve the problem, I guess I'll replace both the starter relay, and/or ignition switch.

rcharr2k9

delsolintegra:
you say it was the starter relay? Are you talking about the main relay or the actual starter relay? Do you have a good part number for it? I tried looking up the part number on the relay, but no luck.

delsolintegra

It was the starter relay.
I was there when the mechanic pinpointed it.
I don't have the part number handy but it was located on tne left wall (behind the carpet) under the left side of the dashboard.
The mechanic pulled the relay out of the solenoid body and turned the key then made the relay contact manually and the car then cranked and ran.
He showed me the contact point that needed to make contact.
The price on my bill was $46 65 for the part.

rcharr2k9

COOL!! Guess I'll go to the local Honda dealer thursday or friday and see if they have one or can get me one. See when I bought the car, the guy told me they had bypassed the starter relay because it was bad.

Does anyone have any idea what the other relay, the one that is BEHIND the starter relay is? It has the same part number as the starter relay.

Gotta get a bunch of stuff ordered, pcv tube, starter interupt(clutch) stopper, etc.

delsolintegra

Yes. Referring to my Haynes manual section 12-3 the PGM-FI relay is located in left end of dashboard. the "Starter Relay" is in the left end of dashboard, BELOW PGM-FI RELAY.

That's how they describe the relays location.

This manual has been pretty handy
Number 42024 Honda Civic and Del Sol 1992 thru 1995
About $24 at Autozone.

rcharr2k9

Yeah, I had a Chilton and a Haynes manual. but apparently someone needed them worse than I did!! Guess I'll fork ou the money for them again, and I want to get the FSM's too.
About the relay locations, I have 4 relays behind the fuse box, under the driver's side of the dash:
1. Main Relay
2. Starter Relay
3. ??? (The relay that I'm not sure about. It is bolted down w/the starter relay/ kind-of piggy-backed w/the starter rely
4. Hazard relay(best I can remember)

It's pouring rain today, and the garage needs to be organized(and it's not mine either)so I don't guess I'll get much done today. I'm still waiting on my neighbor to come home anyway;he did send me a message though that he has an extra ecu that I can use, so just waiting to get w/him about it.
Just wanted to say thanx to everyone that replied w/some input, THANK YOU!!

Former User

The engine cranks fine, right? If so, just concentrate on the main relay and its power and ground wires.

rcharr2k9

It will turn over, it has spark, compression is good, fuel pump just won't prime when you first turn the ignition on after it's sat overnight, unless you leave the ignition on for a few minutes. Don't think it's the main relay itself, since it can be like 500 degrees inside the car, so long as you leave the ignition turned to the ON(II) position for some time as long as 45 mins. I'm thinking ecu itself or electronic portion of ignition switch.

As far as the starter relay, I am guessing it is actually bad, since they bypassed it and are getting signal directly from the ignition switch.

Former User

Here's how to test the ignition switch:

delsolintegra

That other relay that I mentioned was the PGM-FI relay.
It's next to the starter relay.
The PGM-FI relay is the one that I think you didn't recognize as item #3 in your above reply.
I think the PGM-FI (programmable fuel injection) relay may be your most recent problem.

rcharr2k9

See, this is why I need the FSM for my sol!!!
I know that the main relay, large, closest to the firewall, is ok. It's less than 6 mos old, and I retested it.
Next, are two smaller relays, they are on the same "stud", one I know for certain is the starter relay, the other one is the one that I'm not sure about. They are exactly the same relay, #, size, shape,etc.
I'm going to the local dealer tomorrow, like I said, to pick up a few things I need, so maybe I can find out a lil bit more.
Going to the closest junk yards tomorrow too, see what I can find.

Former User

In your situation, your only concern should be the main relay. The other relays are not relevant to your problem. How many pins are in the connector for what you believe is the main relay? Can you post a picture?

delsolintegra

Honda does use the same relay part number for different functions.
For instance if you look in the fuse box under the hood you will see 3 different relays (black bodies) same part numbers that do different functions.

rcharr2k9

Ron:

I know which one the main relay is; like I said I know it's good. And I also noticed that the diagram you have of the relays looks more like the locations of the relays in a 4 door civic.
The main relay has seven actual wires.
This unknown relay is only like 4 pin, just like the starter relay.

See, in the diagram, it shows the hazard/turn signal relay PLUGGED INTO THE FUSE BOX, but in mine there is nothing there, and it's my understanding that the 4th relay, closest to the door jam, is the hazard/turn signal relay.

Anyway, I will try to get some pics up in the next couple days, of the relay, and underside of the dash/fuse box.
I really appreciate all the help.

Former User

For your issue, I just don't understand discussion about any relay except the main relay. Did you test your ignition switch as detailed in the diagram?