Stock Car

98 Civic DX Hatchback

Installed new tranny (actually used with 100k on it, but in great shape) , poly shift linkage bushings and clutch kit 30k / 3 years ago. Was buttery smooth then and still good now except:

In the last month I have started having trouble shifting to first when stopped at a light. I solved this by going to 2nd first and then back to 1st gear to get going. Now I am having trouble getting in to 2nd when stopped. The shifting is smooth when the car is off/parked and when moving. Getting going from a stop is the issue.

For example: Car off- shifts thru gears smooth. Turn car on - won't go in to 1st or 2nd.

Obs:
Clutch does not pump up
No external leak from slave or master cylinder
Tranny fluid is full w/ Honda MTF
Clutch fork feels solid when wiggled by hand
Clutch fluid remains clear several days after flush
Shift linkage has some play in bushing
Significant oil leak somewhere between block and alternator

Recent Work:
Clutch fluid flush (old fluid was black at slave and kinda murky at reservoir, so originally suspected worn out slave)
Bled the hydraulic clutch

This car made the drive from UT to AK last winter and needs to do the same here in a few months.

Thanks for any suggestions!

Former User

Is the clutch pedal a bit spongy. There may be some air left in the clutch hydraulics.

Did you properly adjust the clutch pedal height?

fcm

Sounds like broken spring(s) on the clutch... https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...eo0&ajaxhist=0
94

Stock Car

Ron J-
Clutch does not feel spongy, ramps up pressure nicely. I bled it several times with no change in performance, so although I am rather amateur, I don't think there is air in the system. The clutch feels about the same as the day I installed it regardless of bleeding and flushing the fluid.

Clutch measurements fall in line with the specs given in my manual. I did notice three things 1)The push rod is adjusted at the end of its range (enters master as much as it can 2) the adjusting bolt can only be backed out a couple more threads. 3) the clutch pedal arm appears to stop when the metal arm hits a flat rubber bumper just below the push rod, the one with red around it in the photo.

I thought the clutch in Civics were self adjusting?

fcm-
Would a busted clutch spring still allow me to shift normally while driving?

Former User

The clutch self-adjusts for wear when the pedal height is properly adjusted.

mk378

Like the brake pedal, you need the clutch pedal to come all the way back up when it is not pressed so that the piston comes all the way back, uncovering the hole that lets hydraulic fluid flow in/out of the reservoir to the master cylinder. That is what the spring is for.

It is possible (and common) for a MC to go bad in a way that it can't build enough pressure for the clutch to work, but it doesn't leak to the outside either.

tony_2018

Busted clutch spring would not allow you to shift into any gear. Rev matching is a risk but if you're trying to get home thats something you can try.

Stock Car

Ron J-
OK so I am looking at the correct diagram then. I did the measurements last night and they all fell in line with what we have in our manuals. Is it possible the clutch was not adjusted properly when I put in the new tranny and clutch and now 3 years later I am starting to realize my mistake? If so how do I correct it?

mk378-
So do you think its the clutch or a master/slave issue? Seems like an improperly adjusted clutch would have been apparent a while back but if not maybe that could screw up the master...?

tony-2018-
Yeah gears work fine when moving, its standing still and idling that gives me troubles in 1st/2nd

mk378

You can somewhat work around the broken spring by putting your foot under the pedal and pushing it up when it is supposed to be up. You will ultimately need a new spring for proper operation.

If you are sure it is fully bled and the pedal is coming all the way up and you still have the problem, replace the master cylinder.

tony_2018

I've never heard of anybody replacing the clutch spring, they replace the entire clutch.disk.

Stock Car

The clutch spring works fine along with the rest of the clutch.

A few months ago before this started I do recall thinking that it felt like the clutch was not disengaging as much as it should. However the push rod is adjusted as far out as possible.

The stroke and pedal height measure out correctly but that seems fairly simple considering the clutch arm bottoms out against the car before anything else.

Had a friend drive the car today. He thought everything was smooth as ever, so long as the car was moving. So I am stumped but it must be something I did wrong when installing tranny and clutch a couple years ago...

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

TomCat39

I think the two of you are talking about two different springs.

I think mk378 is referring to the clutch pedal assist spring while the spring you are referencing tony_2018 is the clutch disc spring that fcm posted a picture about..

mk378

For proper operation, the piston in the master cylinder must come all the way back to its internal stop when no one is pressing the pedal. Adjusting the push rod too long or having no pedal spring can prevent that from happening.

It worked for 3 years in the same configuration but then something wore out, my guess would be the master cylinder.

Stock Car

mk378-
When pressing the clutch pedal I can feel the difference between the spring in the clutch arm assembly and when the clutch is actually engaging/disengaging. There is approximately 3/4 inch of play there. But maybe that developed as the master wore out in which case it was improperly adjusted from the beginning.

Well replacing the master is a pretty easy/cheap solution for my mistake. I'll give that a shot.

We can now title this thread: "what happens when an eager amateur replaces his own transmission with little guidance"

Thanks for the lessons everyone, this has been a really fun car to learn on!

Former User

To cover your bases, Consider replacing the slave cylinder while you're at it. It's an inexpensive part.

Stock Car

So further diagnosis: the slave only moves the clutch/release fork about 1cm (3/8 inch). This does not seem like much. I can also push the cluth fork back toward the slave by about 1 to 1.5 cm so that the slave piston is then fully retracted. I assume it should retract fully when operating properly?

Any last thoughts before i head to NAPA?

I wonder if toasted my clutch considering it seems my clutch has been adjusted improperly for several years...

Thanks yall!

Stock Car

Two questions while waiting for parts:

When stopped the car will shift fine if I rev the engine up a bit. Why would it shift at slightly higher rpm but not at idling rpm?

When adjusting the clutch push rod counter clockwise the clutch pedal moves closer to the floor, when turning clockwise it moves back up until resting on the freeplay bolt. I imagine when turned the pushrod should move in and out of the master rather than just placing the clutch pedal in a different position. Advice appreciated!

Stock Car

98' Civic DX
I have a S40 transmission on a D16Y7. Fork moves about 3/8 inch (1cm). How much does yours move when disengaging and engaging the clutch.

I called two honda dealers and got two very different answers.

Stock Car

New slave and master cylinder but the issue of not being able to shift when stopped persists. If I adjust for less throw from push rod the problem gets much worse, if I adjust for maximim throw it is barely workable. Seems like a longer slave cylinder piston would get the job done. Any thoughts?

Also if I rev the engine a little with clutch in the car shifts into gear nice and smooth.

Former User

It's sounding more like a clutch problem now. It soon may be time to drop the transmission.

Stock Car

yeah and I better do it quick as winter is approaching. I wonder what it could be considering clutch kit is so new, maybe worn down clutch fork and pivot ball...

mk378

Can you get into reverse normally? Since there is no synchro mechanism on reverse, if the clutch is not working the gears will audibly grind while trying to shift to reverse with the engine running and car sitting still. If you can go to reverse the clutch is not the problem, there may be something wrong with first and second inside the transmission or the shift linkage.

Stock Car

No grinding when going to reverse. It does sort of clunk into gear, much smoother when I could do first then reverse. That is more difficult these days. Also its not just 1/2 anymore 3rd is getting diffucult as well. What would I be looking for in terms of shift linkage?

I drove a friends honda element. Makes me reconsider how soft my clutch is. It holds pressure but it almost seems too easy to push to the floor...

Stock Car

Would it be a terrible idea to extend the cutch slave cylinder push rod 1/8 inch and see if that solves it?

Also another finding, if im in neutral and push clutch pedal to floor while still rolling then stop while still holding clutch down, I can get into gear easily. But if i let off clutch and then go for first it wont go. Similar to before when holding clutch to start car i can immediately get in to gear but not if i release clutch pedal then depress again the shifter wont go. I'm confused. Busted pressure plate?!

fcm

Still guessing broken clutch spring. [not return spring]

Depending on how and many springs are "broken", [or how badly] will result in progressively "poorer" shifting, one spring just broken but still in it's" seat" will hardly make a difference especially if your good at rev matching https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...9o0&ajaxhist=0 once the piece clears this would not stop me from shifting to any gear stopped or moving, although it would be easier when moving, [revs up] on the other hand https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...2o0&ajaxhist=0 this would start being hard and rev matching a must.

If as you say, new MCC and SCC, properly bled and adjusted and it's still a problem, time to drop the tranny and replace the clutch, TOB and maybe fly wheel, at very least the have it surfaced, it's also a good time to at least check rear seal. 94