ISUBIEXI

I have a 1998 Civic. I took it to get new tires today and when I when to leave the car wouldn't start. The starter turns the engine but she just wont fire. I have replaced pretty much everything in the last 6 months except the fuel pump and fuel filter. Fuel filter is in the mail. Car runs really smooth with just a little inconsistent idle, not a surging or anything just a little rough at times. I still needed to set the timing again but I had some issues last time around and didn't put the timing belt covers back on yet. I was attempting to check to make sure the Cam gears and crank were still lined up but it started raining. Looked close but I needed a bigger wrench to turn the motor. I pulled the number 1 plug and it was really wet, as I expected since I was turning over the engine quite a bit, but the issue was that it did not smell strongly of fuel. I went ahead and pulled the other 3 and exactly the same, dripping wet but only a light fuel smell. No where near what I would expect. Its a stock D16 so I'm running the cheapest, is it 87 maybe. My other cars run only on 91 so maybe I'm expecting too much from the cheap fuel. I cleaned the plugs and threw them back in and it felt like it almost fired then nothing. At that point I called an uber it was getting dark, raining and I only had basic tools.

I recently did the head gasket and I'm not losing any water, engine temp is not a problem. Completely new Distributor, no codes. I will double check the timing tomorrow. I don't think its the head gasket, its hard to believe that every cyl is leaking and I'm not getting any smoke or loss of coolant. The plugs did not smell like coolant. Do you think its possible that I just got some bad gas? I have driven about 5 miles since I filled up, car was below E when I filled up.

I will check spark tomorrow along with timing, any other ideas, i don't think its Hydrolock, it was not raining when i parked the car or when it stopped starting, i have a short ram intake. Most likely ill pull the fuel line to better examine the gas and fuel pressure.

09chaplak

Hold the gas pedal all the way down and crank the engine, this should cut fuel and should allow the engine a better chance of starting. Check the fuel pressure at the banjo fitting on the filter, see if some comes out when you prime it. If it were hydrolocked it probably wouldn't crank at all.

ISUBIEXI

Yea, I just wanted to throw in that Hydro lock part so no one would suggest it. Yea I was trying to start it with the petal down but no luck. I was already suspecting the Fuel filter of being an issue that's why I had already ordered a new one along with some new plugs. They arrive tomorrow night. I'm wondering if I should grab some Octane booster and throw that in the tank as well, I'm not sure at this point what is up. Its gota be fuel/Spark/timing. Distributor timing has been working for months so I don't think that the issue, I will validate if it jumped a tooth on timing, I was thinking it was a bit loose but not loose enough to skip.

09chaplak

Sounds like you've got your basis covered. What method of tightening the belt did you use? Got any starter fluid around?

testify

Did the tire store people drive your car?

ISUBIEXI

No they didn't Drive it, didn't touch it at all. When I did the belt I just rotated the crank counter clockwise 2-3 teeth then tightened the belt. Honestly it felt a little loose to be but I have been known to overtighten the belts. Generally ill just put pressure on the tensioner until I feel like its tight enough, spin the crank a few rotations while checking the tension and moving on. When i put on the covers i planned to tighten it a bit. I destroyed a head by over tightening the cam bolts and it took me a few sets of Cam Gears and reassembling it 3 or 4 times before i realized the issue, when i replaced the head i opted to wait until a later time to put on the covers so i could inspect things more easily for a while.

I'm pretty sure this is a fuel or spark issue or maybe **** fuel creating a spark issue. Maybe i connected my radiator overflow to the fuel line and fuel line to the radiator. lol
Its been running well for a few months and taken a few long trips so everything was pretty healthy. I should have put a b20 in this thing right when i got it but i thought it would be better to service the D16. At this point i think it would have cost the same but i learned a lot along the way so I'm fine with it. Honestly I'm starting to eye the engine in my Accord for a swap. H23AVtec. This Civic is like an 8/10 for exterior and 8/10 interior, the Accord is like 5/10 4/10. lol. I started building a new Engine Harness for the Accord at the beginning of December and kind of stalled due to Christmas and the cold weather. I need to get it back on the road before i start stealing parts from it. lol

ISUBIEXI

No starter fluid, I'm sure i could pick some up, my car is stuck at America Tire at the moment. Gota head over there once work gets slow tomorrow.

mk378

Take the fuel return hose off where it joins the metal pipe at the firewall. This is the hose that leaves the fuel pressure regulator. Point the hose into a clean container. Turn the key on but don't crank. You should get a decent stream of fuel and it should be clean. If you have a lot of water in the gas tank you need to drain it. I think there is still a drain plug on the later models.

ISUBIEXI

Well good news and bad news. I went back to the car this morning and checked it out. Checked the mechanical timing and that looked good, the Up mark along with the 2 lines on the Cam Gear lined up perfectly with the white line on the Crank pulley. Crank pulley white line was lined up perfectly with the TDC mark. I tried cranking it and same thing, every once in a while I could hear and feel a very slight fire but nothing good enough to fire the engine. Pulled the plugs and they were all dripping wet only smelling faintly like gas. I swapped those plugs with some old ones I had laying around, I pulled the dist cap and cleaned the points, they were pretty clean to start with. I cranked the car quite a bit, I could feel it almost firing so I kept my foot on the pedal and it started. I took it straight home, I noticed quite a bit of white smoke as I was driving, it is wet outside so I was expecting a little bit for a minute but it was much more than it should be. I got about 1/2 way home and it stopped. I tried to get it to smoke again by driving in high rpm but no luck, I pulled in at home and I noticed it started to smoke again after I parked, this lasted about 1 minute then it stopped, I revved it up again and nothing.

Very strange.... I will do a compression test in the next few days and see if that points to anything, my new plugs and Fuel filter come in tonight so I will be swapping those out as well. I replaced the head gasket and head November 1st so those are pretty new. I am honestly thinking I got some watered down gas. That's the last time I put in anything less than 91.

I also shut it off and started it back up and it fired without issue with no smoke. I was looking forward to using my new spark tester but there was no need. lol

ISUBIEXI

Checked things out today. Compression test was 180 165 180 180. This is a stock bottom end with 240,000 miles so I feel like that's pretty good. What's a little funny is that last time i checked it cyl 1 was the low one. But that was a brand new head and gasket that had never been started. Changed the fuel filter and new NGK plugs, she fired right up, car is running smoother than it has since I purchased it. No white smoke at all, I'm not really sure what to think at this point, I guess ill need to drive it and see what happens. I wanted to check the timing but that was a bust, I need to install the lower timing cover and my timing light is pretty weak, I could faintly make out the lines, all 4 actually, they seemed steady and roughly where they needed to be but I will need the cover on and for the car to be in the dark garage to check it again. I really need to get the accord running again, this wiring project turned out to be bigger than expected, or maybe I'm just lazier than I expected, too much video games and not enough working on cars. lol.

mk378

I see no mention of doing this test. Did you even read this?

You do not need to use 91 octane in a stock Civic. Total waste of money.

ISUBIEXI

Yes I read it, I checked the fuel and verified fuel pressure when I replaced the fuel filter. I did not check the return but all seems to be well now. I'm pretty sure the problem was water in the tank. I did run the car down to E before I filed up about 5 miles before I had the issue. I don't plan to drain the tank, I did read that there is an additive that can be added to the fuel that will absorb the water and safety pass it thru the engine. I am no longer having issues so I don't think any further action is necessary. I know 91 is a little overkill but honestly, its gives me piece of mind at least. I grabbed some Octane booster as well to put in. Guess we will see what happens next time I get to the bottom of the tank. I assume the fuel pickup is at the bottom of the tank and fuel floats on water so I would hope its all been sucked up already.

I still need to set the ignition timing but will need to pull off the belts to install the timing covers. Time to get my accord back on the road so I can use my garage again.

ISUBIEXI

Well.... its doing it again.
I generally only drive 1-2 times a week so the car does not get a ton of action, generally its just a trip the grocery store. So today I was heading to get some groceries and the car decided not to start, I have noticed a few times that it was a little hard to start and took 7-8 cranks to get it to fire. Most of the time it fires on the first 2-3. This time it didn't fire but I could feel it spark every 3-4 turns so I decided I was going to power through it and I cranked it for a good 30 seconds before it was able to run on its own. Not the best thing to do but I was frustrated. After that it ran perfectly smoothly, I listened to the engine for a few minutes and it sounded good. I shut the car off and it fired right back up. I decided to chance it so I went to the store, when I came out I half expected it not to start but it fired right up, I was in the store for a good hour. I got home and after unloading I tried to fire it back up and it was a no go, not a hint of life. I checked the spark and it seemed a little weak, not bright blue like everyone says it should be. This was using a brand new HEI spark tool. I pulled the number 1 plug and it was soaked, the center of the plug was completely wet, I smelled it and it did not smell like gas, I wiped the fluid on my hand and it was not oily and did not smell of coolant. I had my son smell it as well and it could not smell anything.

I'm not sure what to think at this point. I think ill do as recommended earlier in this post and pull the fuel return and cycle the fuel pump a few times into a container and see what I find. Very frustrating, car was running totally smoothly then directly to no start. I may go ahead and order a fuel pressure gauge along with an upgraded coil, the one I have in the car now it just a generic one from amazon. I will did a side by side on the spark and see if their is a difference. I still feel like its something with the fuel, I have never pulled a plug and not been able to smell fuel on it.

I am still on the same tank of gas as when I first had the issue 3/4ths still full, I did add an octaine booster to it but I would assume if there is water it would just all float on top of the water anyway.

No smoke and no problem once the car was running.

ISUBIEXI

Pulled the plugs, still dripping wet after sitting all night. Did not smell of fuel. I pulled the fuel return line and cycled the fuel pump and drained a bunch of fuel into a bottle. I did smell fuel right away when I pulled the return line but it seem a little weak. The return seemed to flow decently , the one thing I did note is there was bubbles in the fuel coming from the regulator/rail. I'm not sure if I should be concerned about that, there was not an excessive amount just some small bubbles. I pulled the fuel rail to check the injectors and they were extremely dirty, not the valve area inside but around the tip. The filters were clean. I cleaned everything before sticking it back in. I did notice that when I pulled hose that runs, I believe to the EVAP a bunch of water came out. That hose was basically collapsed on itself. I wonder if my issue is related to that... I went ahead and capped it off for the time being. I put everything back together.

With the plugs out and the injectors unplugged I cranked the engine and I could see water coming out of the plug holes. Just in case I tasted it and it was not fuel and was not sweet. I spun the engine until it the bulk stopped coming out. Just to make it clear it wasn't a stream of water or anything more like some drops like flicking your hands after washing them. I cleaned the plugs off well and connected the injectors and gave it a shot and it fired right up. I shut it down and fired it up another 3 times and no hesitation.

I did put a brand new air filter on and went ahead and ordered a fuel pressure gauge along with one of those Accel coils. I'm thinking that fuel isn't the issue but at least I can rule out fuel pressure. The spark was a little weak so we will see if the new coil helps, I'm not expecting any miracles but we will see.

I was starting to think..., if I am getting coolant in the oil, it would most likely evaporate and come out of the breather for the engine and back into the intake manifold, that would effectively get water in every cly. It may be an issue with the head gasket after all. I need to drain the oil to see if that's the problem. I would have to assume that this oil has less than 1500 miles on it, maybe less so it should come out looking pretty clean.

ISUBIEXI

Small update.
Fuel pressure gauge installed, pressure is 35 and 45 without the vacuum on the stock regulator. Seems to be ok.
I also installed the new coil and the car is a bit smoother now. After a few drives it was working pretty good then yesterday I did have one time where it didn't quite catch in the first 3 cranks and stalled, to get it to start after that it had to give it a good 10 cranks with some pedal as well. I suppose that could just be timing and flooding the engine slightly. Ill keep an eye on it, and drive it some more, I need to get my accord out of the garage before I can play with the civic, next step is draining the oil so I can see how it looks.

Car runs great, no overheating, I am still losing some coolant but I definitely have a leak coming from somewhere that I have not been able to find yet.

ISUBIEXI

Ok...head gasket is definitely not right. My Oil is chocolate milk. I think I'm going to go ahead and order the ARP stud kit with Cometic gasket. I know its overkill but I really think Studs are the way to go, it will make life easier installing the head.

Its crazy that every cyl is leaking... how is that even possible. I went cheap with the head gasket and got a "Domestic Gaskets" gasket for $15, guess that may have been my downfall. Also when I installed the head I was strugging to line things up and ended up using some pencils to help line things up, I may have got some wood/paint/lead between the gasket and head.

Well I placed my order. ARP Head Studs & Cometic Head Gasket Set 75.5mm Bore .030’’ For 1996-2000 Honda Civic D16y8 D16y7 D16y5 SOHC Engines Only - Bundle
Its going to take more than a week to arrive so I have time to get the Accord sorted first.

mk378

To put the head on, make sure the two metal "dowel pin" cylinders that go in the two middle front bolt holes are in the block. (one or both may stick in the head when you take it off) Then set the gasket on the block, pushing the bolt holes over those cylinders and it will be lined up.

ISUBIEXI

Its possible that I installed them on the Head first last time, honestly I don't remember. I remember pulling them, cleaning them and inspecting them but don't remember installing them. I'm sure I did it but it was a struggle to get the head back on by myself.

Any suggestions on what I should do to clean the crap out of my engine?

ISUBIEXI

Ok, I finally got the new Cometic Gasket and ARP headstuds installed. I have to say.... sooo much easier to put on the head with the studs. I think if nothing else it was worth the money just to make it easy to install. The only issue I had was when I put on the head it take some wiggling to get it all the way down. I worry a little that the dowels didn't quite sit right. Everything looks flush so I think I'm good. Of course I couldn't find my 12 point 12 mm socket so I had to make a home depot trip. I did cheat a bit with the timing belt, I put a piece of tape then zip tied it to the cam gear and just removed the cam gear, that saved me a ton of time. I pulled the head including manifold so it only took me about 1.5 hours to get the head off and I would guess another 3 to get everything installed. That's including fishing out a hex bit that fell into the water sleeve on the block. The studs did take some extra time to install but I feel very confident with them.

So far I do see some white smoke and the idle is a 1000 when warm. I may have a vacuum leak somewhere, I did notice a pulsing idle at one point but there may still be some air in the system. Ill drive it a bit and see how it feels. I drove it around the parking lot a bit and it was fine, there was a little bit of a rattle I need to track down but other than that i think I'm good. I do need to double check the timing, maybe it jumped a tooth while i was taking the head off.

If i have problems starting the car again and the plugs are wet.... I'm going to throw this engine off a cliff. lol

Jimi Hondrix

Check the vacuum line the connects from cruise control unit to the intake manilfold...it's easy to forget to connect that one.
Were there any stripped block (head) bolt holes?

ISUBIEXI

yea ill check the lines again, I don't remember connecting any vacuum lines actually, I did look to see if any were missing but maybe I missed one, I was pretty tired once I was done. I did drive it a bit yesterday and except for the idle issue everything seems fine.

The studs seemed fine, I actually ended up torqueing everything down to 60ft lbs per the arp instructions. 14ft lbs then 36ft lbs then 49ft lbs and finally 60ft lbs. I was a little worried about going to 60 but everything torqued smoothly. Car starts right away now, no cranking. I'm hoping its just air in the coolant or a vacuum leak. I did throw a P0505 so it does sound like a leak somewhere.

ISUBIEXI

Good call on that Vacuum line. I don't think I even disconnected that one, most likely just popped off when I removed the head or when I was removing other stuff back there. What a odd place for that line to be connected. Well ill try driving a bit later and see if everything is resolved. Thanks for the help.

Jimi Hondrix

Cool. Hopefully it's all sorted now.

ISUBIEXI

yea its good, so far its perfectly solid. good idle and such. When I did the gasket the first time I removed the intake manifold from the head and left it connected to everything so I didn't see that line. It was much easier this time. I'm getting much faster and confident doing head gaskets now. Maybe ill give building a bottom end a try again. The last 3 times were failures, but to be fair that was like 12-15 yrs ago. First time my F22 had rodknock so I replaced the bearings, I'm pretty sure the damage was already done so that was a waste of time. Then again with my first H22a, the bottom end was toast when I got it from Hmotors, I should have just taken it right back to them and replaced it but for some reason I tried to replace the berings first. 3rd time I built a H23vtec with h23 rods, they didn't make it 100 miles before a rod blew up on me. After that I said... I will never work on the bottom end of a motor again. I have 4 Hondas at the moment, I'm sure ill get a knock eventually. lol.

Jimi Hondrix

Purchasing a used engine sucks unless they are still running (in car) and can be tested : leakdown, compression, block-test, oil pressure, heat oil look for splatter/pops (coolant), inspect spark plugs..yada-yada