Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest?
01-09-2006, 12:13 PM
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Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest?
I have searched thru the archives on the Drive Axle/CV Joint topic and copied the following procedures and issues raised. I have never replaced a front drive axle on a Honda. My questions and issues at the present time are as follows: For a 1994 Accord Ex, 4 door, F22B1 V-Tec Engine, CD5 Chassis
1. Impact guns - I have one but use it on a limited basis, primarily for speed with some force (20 lug nuts). Experience taught me that impact guns can break things too easily.
2. Why is everyone recommending WD-40 as a loosening lube? Although it usually works on non corroded studs/bolts, too often it is inferior for corroded threads. Engineers taught me it is best used as a metal cleaner or moisture displacement. PB Blaster, aka Blaster, is what I was taught is THE lube to use, second only to some specialty lube. I know the US Govt has advanced lubes, albeit, hard to find for common man. Is the Blaster too aggressive?
3. Years ago we used tools called Striking Wrenches to remove those 36 mm, VW, rear axle nuts (never failed), which can put much more force on a nut that a 1/2 drive impact. Force/torque can be more controlled. I have a proto 12 pt. Striking Wrench that fits the axle nut and clears the wheel studs too, but even if you have a straight style striking wrench (with 12 points) you can get at least one hit before having to re-position it. As for the German style 6 pt straight ones, they might not clear the studs for a hit.
4. I also have a 3/4 drive, 3 foot, breaker bar, with 3/4 drive sockets. Didn't hear much mention of these either.
5. On the 36 mm axle nut install, can the 180-230 ft lbs be achieved with 1/2 drive sockets and torque wrench with a 50-250 ft lb range? How critical is the exact torque for these jap cars? ... (I'm a first time owner).
6. Is the Helms Manual and the Haynes Manual in agreement for the replacement procedure? ... And most importantly, are these archive file copies the same as Helms or different?
DRIVE AXLES REPAIR METHODS —
1. Mark Relationship of Tie Rod to Steering Link, and Remove Tie Rod. Pivot Wheel out and Remove Drive Shaft
2. Separate the lower ball joint, the steering rod ball joint.
3. You have to undo the damper fork and lower ball joints to slide the axle out.
4. Unbolt the lower control arm from the chassis and the lower shock mount/fork & radius rod and the whole knuckle swings right out of the way. Sometimes you do have to remove the sway bar end link, but usually I can do without. Sounds like more work, but it really is quicker in my opinion. Guy at a Honda dealer showed/told me that.
5. You need to remove cotter pin and nut for the lower control arm, you need to separate arm from knuckle a few good wacks with a big hammer will do the trick make sure you hit the knuckle part ... anyhow, pry axle out of tranny with screwdriver axle should slide past the fork with ease Fork? As in Damper Fork?
6. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=382416
7. Q:
Will I have to replace the ball joint? I have had issues in the past with pulling a castle nut and then not being able to put it back on. it basically just keeps turning the ball joint and I cant get it back on ?
7. Cont.
A: You probably wont need a new ball joint. Make sure you use plenty of wd-40 on it though so you don't strip the threads if they're really that tight.
I didn't need a new one when I had to fix my sister's Honda which is now mine. And she melted the brakes... beyond warped. They were so hot, they pretty much welded the axle nut on. I couldn't get it off with a 1/2 in. drive breaker bar and a 4 foot jack handle on the end. I just drove it to a local shop and had a friend use the impact and re-tighten it loosely. Not a big deal, but an impact wrench is definitely preferred.
You should bend the part of the axle nut back out of the groove it's in before you try to take it off, and put it back when you're done... this is what he meant by staking the nut.
Also, the sledge hammer trick didn't work for me - I had to get a puller.
7. Cont.
it is actually easier to get out than back in. I replaced both on my '94 accord about a year ago and I really only had trouble with the driver side. all you have to do is push the shaft in till you hear a click. once you get the shaft into the tranny, then try to get the rotor back on and if it gets through enough you can start tightening the bolt back on and get it all the way through that way, but make sure if your using an impact gun that you do it slowly so you don't mess it up. the only reason why getting it back in is so hard is because it sucks getting the rotor lined up with the splines on the shaft.
7. Cont.
well I just finished up, haven't driven it yet so hopefully everything is ok. so I pop the wheel cover off and put the 32 mm nut on with the 24" breaker and it pops right off. so I'm thinking jeez great this is gonna be smooth sailing. take ball joint out, get the fork off and pop the shaft out. going great and I'm about 30 min in. so i take the new shaft and slide it into the tranny, fits like a glove and I'm thinking I'm gonna be done in about another 10 min. getting that flipping piece of horse sh*t back into the f*&^ing spindle was worse than giving birth. what a friggen nightmare. i really dont even remember how i got the damn thing back on but its on and i got the nut on fine and did stake it properly. road test in the morning. if you can get a helper to do this then please for your own sanity do it. if one person can hold the ball joint in line to the LCA while the other guy smacks the hub into the spindle it would make it A LOT easier
8. If it's anything like the 4th gens, it's almost easier to just undo the LCA to frame bolt, radius rod to LCA and sway bar to LCA. You can then get enough play to move the LCA out of the way to let the axle be removed. It's a few more bolts, but I'd take that over separating the ball joint any day. Well, maybe not now that I bought a special tool to do so.
1. Impact guns - I have one but use it on a limited basis, primarily for speed with some force (20 lug nuts). Experience taught me that impact guns can break things too easily.
2. Why is everyone recommending WD-40 as a loosening lube? Although it usually works on non corroded studs/bolts, too often it is inferior for corroded threads. Engineers taught me it is best used as a metal cleaner or moisture displacement. PB Blaster, aka Blaster, is what I was taught is THE lube to use, second only to some specialty lube. I know the US Govt has advanced lubes, albeit, hard to find for common man. Is the Blaster too aggressive?
3. Years ago we used tools called Striking Wrenches to remove those 36 mm, VW, rear axle nuts (never failed), which can put much more force on a nut that a 1/2 drive impact. Force/torque can be more controlled. I have a proto 12 pt. Striking Wrench that fits the axle nut and clears the wheel studs too, but even if you have a straight style striking wrench (with 12 points) you can get at least one hit before having to re-position it. As for the German style 6 pt straight ones, they might not clear the studs for a hit.
4. I also have a 3/4 drive, 3 foot, breaker bar, with 3/4 drive sockets. Didn't hear much mention of these either.
5. On the 36 mm axle nut install, can the 180-230 ft lbs be achieved with 1/2 drive sockets and torque wrench with a 50-250 ft lb range? How critical is the exact torque for these jap cars? ... (I'm a first time owner).
6. Is the Helms Manual and the Haynes Manual in agreement for the replacement procedure? ... And most importantly, are these archive file copies the same as Helms or different?
DRIVE AXLES REPAIR METHODS —
1. Mark Relationship of Tie Rod to Steering Link, and Remove Tie Rod. Pivot Wheel out and Remove Drive Shaft
2. Separate the lower ball joint, the steering rod ball joint.
3. You have to undo the damper fork and lower ball joints to slide the axle out.
4. Unbolt the lower control arm from the chassis and the lower shock mount/fork & radius rod and the whole knuckle swings right out of the way. Sometimes you do have to remove the sway bar end link, but usually I can do without. Sounds like more work, but it really is quicker in my opinion. Guy at a Honda dealer showed/told me that.
5. You need to remove cotter pin and nut for the lower control arm, you need to separate arm from knuckle a few good wacks with a big hammer will do the trick make sure you hit the knuckle part ... anyhow, pry axle out of tranny with screwdriver axle should slide past the fork with ease Fork? As in Damper Fork?
6. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=382416
7. Q:
Will I have to replace the ball joint? I have had issues in the past with pulling a castle nut and then not being able to put it back on. it basically just keeps turning the ball joint and I cant get it back on ?
7. Cont.
A: You probably wont need a new ball joint. Make sure you use plenty of wd-40 on it though so you don't strip the threads if they're really that tight.
I didn't need a new one when I had to fix my sister's Honda which is now mine. And she melted the brakes... beyond warped. They were so hot, they pretty much welded the axle nut on. I couldn't get it off with a 1/2 in. drive breaker bar and a 4 foot jack handle on the end. I just drove it to a local shop and had a friend use the impact and re-tighten it loosely. Not a big deal, but an impact wrench is definitely preferred.
You should bend the part of the axle nut back out of the groove it's in before you try to take it off, and put it back when you're done... this is what he meant by staking the nut.
Also, the sledge hammer trick didn't work for me - I had to get a puller.
7. Cont.
it is actually easier to get out than back in. I replaced both on my '94 accord about a year ago and I really only had trouble with the driver side. all you have to do is push the shaft in till you hear a click. once you get the shaft into the tranny, then try to get the rotor back on and if it gets through enough you can start tightening the bolt back on and get it all the way through that way, but make sure if your using an impact gun that you do it slowly so you don't mess it up. the only reason why getting it back in is so hard is because it sucks getting the rotor lined up with the splines on the shaft.
7. Cont.
well I just finished up, haven't driven it yet so hopefully everything is ok. so I pop the wheel cover off and put the 32 mm nut on with the 24" breaker and it pops right off. so I'm thinking jeez great this is gonna be smooth sailing. take ball joint out, get the fork off and pop the shaft out. going great and I'm about 30 min in. so i take the new shaft and slide it into the tranny, fits like a glove and I'm thinking I'm gonna be done in about another 10 min. getting that flipping piece of horse sh*t back into the f*&^ing spindle was worse than giving birth. what a friggen nightmare. i really dont even remember how i got the damn thing back on but its on and i got the nut on fine and did stake it properly. road test in the morning. if you can get a helper to do this then please for your own sanity do it. if one person can hold the ball joint in line to the LCA while the other guy smacks the hub into the spindle it would make it A LOT easier
8. If it's anything like the 4th gens, it's almost easier to just undo the LCA to frame bolt, radius rod to LCA and sway bar to LCA. You can then get enough play to move the LCA out of the way to let the axle be removed. It's a few more bolts, but I'd take that over separating the ball joint any day. Well, maybe not now that I bought a special tool to do so.
01-09-2006, 12:28 PM
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Re: Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest? (diyer)
Not sure exactly which are your questions but here goes:
PB Blaster is fine and dandy! I use it all the time, much better than WD40.
Have fun removing the ball joint nut without an impact wrench. You can do it but sometimes they like to spin & spin & spin...
You can definitely remove the axle nut w/ a breaker bar & socket. Done it many times myself, just have someone hold the brakes.
Separating the ball joint from LCA is very easy - smash LCA multiple times with a big *** hammer and it will eventually just fall right off the ball joint. Forget the separator tool.
HTH
PB Blaster is fine and dandy! I use it all the time, much better than WD40.
Have fun removing the ball joint nut without an impact wrench. You can do it but sometimes they like to spin & spin & spin...
You can definitely remove the axle nut w/ a breaker bar & socket. Done it many times myself, just have someone hold the brakes.
Separating the ball joint from LCA is very easy - smash LCA multiple times with a big *** hammer and it will eventually just fall right off the ball joint. Forget the separator tool.
HTH
01-09-2006, 12:52 PM
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Re: Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest? (diyer)
1. Use it, it helps on bigger sized bolts/nuts. IR TNT impact wrench with 1000lb-ft burst torque nuff said.
2. No idea, big IR TNT impact wrench needs no assistance for anything corroded. My axle nut was so corroded on, i broke a 1/2 inch impact extension with a 4ft breaker bar
. Use the impact wrench.
3. Look at #1
5. Yes, 250lb-ft max torque wrench is what you want, 200lb-ft torque within it's extremes.
6. No idea, but your write up is the same as I did
Key is to take off the balljoint nut and dislodge the balljoint from lower control arm for axle removal. I placed a second jack under lca to support it while the axle was off.
2. No idea, big IR TNT impact wrench needs no assistance for anything corroded. My axle nut was so corroded on, i broke a 1/2 inch impact extension with a 4ft breaker bar
. Use the impact wrench.3. Look at #1
5. Yes, 250lb-ft max torque wrench is what you want, 200lb-ft torque within it's extremes.
6. No idea, but your write up is the same as I did
Key is to take off the balljoint nut and dislodge the balljoint from lower control arm for axle removal. I placed a second jack under lca to support it while the axle was off.
01-09-2006, 02:28 PM
#4
you do not remove the tie rod end nut, you do not remove the fork,, axle will slide right out , and absolutely you do not have to do anything with sway bar...........A dealer tech showed you that??? heck working on flat rate techs take the shortest road possible,,, .....
Trust me ,between completre axles and cv boots , i remove more than a few dozens per year,,
Just remove the 36m nut, lower ball joint nut swing knuckle to the side and slide axle out ..
Trust me ,between completre axles and cv boots , i remove more than a few dozens per year,,
Just remove the 36m nut, lower ball joint nut swing knuckle to the side and slide axle out ..
01-09-2006, 03:22 PM
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Re: Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest? (diyer)
PB Blaster and rubber Don't mix..big BOZO NO NO
From my files of "don't make war on brothers in arms" Before you put the lower 'wishbone' bolt in Grease it, and the same goes for the outer joint face where it meets the bearing; also the splines going thru the hub need a swipe of grease. Nothing "makes my day" more than a 'stuck axle'. Grrrrrrrrr!!!
I've never seen a need to drop the tie rod loose, just use a bungee to pull the hub back out of the way. Only on newer models does the inner joint pass thru the 'wishbone' Leave the castle nut part way on the lower ball joint stud in case a hammer swing goes wild that way you won't damage the stud threads
From my files of "don't make war on brothers in arms" Before you put the lower 'wishbone' bolt in Grease it, and the same goes for the outer joint face where it meets the bearing; also the splines going thru the hub need a swipe of grease. Nothing "makes my day" more than a 'stuck axle'. Grrrrrrrrr!!!
I've never seen a need to drop the tie rod loose, just use a bungee to pull the hub back out of the way. Only on newer models does the inner joint pass thru the 'wishbone' Leave the castle nut part way on the lower ball joint stud in case a hammer swing goes wild that way you won't damage the stud threads
01-09-2006, 04:01 PM
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Re: Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest? (hondadude)
[QUOTE=hondadude]PB Blaster and rubber Don't mix ... big BOZO NO NO
Well, I was only thinking of the steel parts like the shaft splines and the rotor hub area. Actually even WD-40 is not good for rubber, since it is also a petroleum based product. I would use the blaster anyway and then just wipe it off - it just works too well. What's your thought on silicone as a rubber safe lube?
"... Before you put the lower 'wishbone' bolt in, Grease it, and the same goes for the outer joint face where it meets the bearing; also the splines going thru the hub need a swipe of grease ... Leave the castle nut part way on the lower ball joint stud in case a hammer swing goes wild that way you won't damage the stud threads."
Yes, I saw this in the Helms. Thank you.
Well, I was only thinking of the steel parts like the shaft splines and the rotor hub area. Actually even WD-40 is not good for rubber, since it is also a petroleum based product. I would use the blaster anyway and then just wipe it off - it just works too well. What's your thought on silicone as a rubber safe lube?
"... Before you put the lower 'wishbone' bolt in, Grease it, and the same goes for the outer joint face where it meets the bearing; also the splines going thru the hub need a swipe of grease ... Leave the castle nut part way on the lower ball joint stud in case a hammer swing goes wild that way you won't damage the stud threads."
Yes, I saw this in the Helms. Thank you.
01-09-2006, 05:02 PM
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Re: Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest? (diyer)
oh yeah, I meant not to leave the pb blaster where it would soak into rubber, makes it swell up. I use dow corning 111 silicone grease on everything from sway bar bushings to Crankshaft seals. 'Top Shelf' stuff
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01-09-2006, 08:28 PM
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Re: Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest? (hondadude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondadude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Only on newer models does the inner joint pass thru the 'wishbone </TD></TR></TABLE>
all the way back to 90 accords ,axle goes throught the wishbone ..trust me i do a **** load of these
all the way back to 90 accords ,axle goes throught the wishbone ..trust me i do a **** load of these
11-20-2006, 03:09 PM
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Re: Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest? (Honda-Master)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda-Master »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
all the way back to 90 accords ,axle goes throught the wishbone ..trust me i do a **** load of these </TD></TR></TABLE>Not to revive a dead thread, but I'm here to tell you that I am in the middle of changing the passenger side of an '86. It most certainly does NOT pass through the wishbone. And I'm stuck too because all the wishbone bolt will do is turn the rubber, not actually come out. Now what?
all the way back to 90 accords ,axle goes throught the wishbone ..trust me i do a **** load of these </TD></TR></TABLE>Not to revive a dead thread, but I'm here to tell you that I am in the middle of changing the passenger side of an '86. It most certainly does NOT pass through the wishbone. And I'm stuck too because all the wishbone bolt will do is turn the rubber, not actually come out. Now what?
11-20-2006, 06:43 PM
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Re: Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest? (newuser333)
yo new user dude; take the inner CV joint boot band clamp off, watch out for the 3 bearings inside when you remove the Inner joint. Take note of the bearing oreintation[sp?] Then you'll be able to slide the axle out.
11-21-2006, 05:41 PM
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Re: Front Drive Axle Replacement Methods - Is the Easiest also the Quickest? (hondadude)
Too late! I just got fed up & cut it off. I figured the bolt was rusted fast to the inner sleeve and there was no way it was coming out. By now I've butchered the bushing so bad it had to be replaced anyway. So now the control arm is off, the old bushing is out. And I have a new bushing, bolt, & nut for $30 courtesy of my local Honda dealer.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
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