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My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning

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Old 06-20-2003, 05:08 PM
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Default My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning

I know that many of you support Inline Pro, and i use to as well. Here is my expirience with this shop. I'm not one of those guys who goes out there and tries to badmouth a shop for no reason. That being said, take from this what u will.

My currect car is a turbo h23 prelude. It was formerly owned by my good friend emile, or better known as "SilverludeSi" who was on here very often. Last summer, the engine blew so Emile and i tok the car down to Inline Pro to get it built. It seemed like they had a very good reputation and was a well known and a competent shop.
The work done on the car were GE sleeves, Portflow head, Quaife, pistons, cam gears, a lot of machine work, assembly, R&R, etc.

Problems from the get-go right after the car was picked up:
-the engine was abnormally loud, but was said it was because of the custom Portflow dual valve springs.
-Oil was leaking from somewhere, seemed like the rear main seal.
-irradic idle

After the car was finished the car was tuned by Steve Sakai after the rebuild to about 1 bar. At that time, the head rose at around 14psi for some reason. We thought it was the head studs that had stretched. It seemed that the head had settled back down since there were no signs of leak and the comp #'s were fine. The car was driven minimally and was kept out of boost for most of the driving while we waited for ARP to make h23 studs. This is when ownership was tranfered to me, since Emile had many academic obligations to fullfill. I really wanted to see this car through and complete the project.
While Emile was driving the car one day on the highway, the car just died. What ended up begine the problem?


The cam gear broke. Bent valves. It was from inline pro, but they said it was manufactured by Golden Eagle....I guess they just slapped thier name on it. Anyway, at that time they agreed that they would take care of it. It ended up being OK timing wise since the ARP's had just come out for the h23. So the HG was replaced along with the ARP's installed while INLINE replaced the valves and the cam gear. Also they addressed the leaking oil problem. They said it was the oil pan gasket and replaced it. While the ARP's were beign put in I had a conversation with Stan that I SPECIFICALLY rememeber because i had researched it extensively the day before. I asked him if they used copper spray when they assembled the block. Stan said yes they did, and would be doing so again when they put the new valves/studs/cam gears in. In a previous conversation that Emile had with Stan after the head rose, Stan also said Copper spray was used.
When i picked up the car it ran very strange. I only had maybe 15-20hrs of driving the car at the time so i thought that i just did not have a feel for the car yet, so i passed it off as it being ok. While driving home, the CE light blinked on once or twice and studdered for a little, but didnt happen again. The EGT for some reason would read no higher than 600C on highway. I felt that for some reason the tuning must have been off. I checked for codes once i got home, but the ECU did not store any codes. I thought, "Ok for some reason it is out of tune, ill put it up on a dyno and see whats wrong..."
At that point, the car was taken to Tempest racing to get a downpipe made since the one on there was mangled by a raised manhole. While the car was getting a DP made, i told them to tune it. They called me and told me that they stoped after the baseline because they felt that the engine was abnormally loud for some reason, maybe piston slap. Also the Cam gears were set 6 degrees advanced for some reason, which i didnt even catch till they told me.
So i took it back to Inline saying that the engine seemed loud. I also asked why the cam gears were set 6 degrees advanced.
Thier response was that the noise was just valvetrain noise, and mechanically the engine was fine. The cam gears were advanced 6 degrees because they didnt tighten it down enough and the extra load on the gear from the valve springs caused it to move a bit.
Well at that time i trusted what Inline told me. I made an apointment for Inline to tune my Hondata in 2 weeks, then drove the car home. At no point between when i picked up the car from the cam gear mis-hap untill when i dropped it off at Inline for them to tune it again did i boost more than 5 psi, and that was maybe while i was merging from an onramp. Between the 2 weeks all i had done was garaged the car back at home, then went back to school.
Two weeks later, when i dropped off the car to get it tuned, i specifically asked for them to look at the idle problem it was having, and to see what was goin on with the tunign in general. About 2 weeks later they called me up and said it was ready to go. They said the idle problem never happened, and that they tuned it to 10 psi because they felt it was the extent of 93 octane. Oook. At that point i just wanted to drive the car. Before i got off the phone Stan warned me that the car died for some reason a couple times, but didnt do it again. He said it migth be the main relay.
I went to pick it up the next day. The car died on the way home. Luckily i was about 10 mins from inline, so they came and replaced my main relay to no avail. After that, i left the car back at Inline to figure out what was wrong. After a week or so, they said they couldnt figure it out, and that it migth be the MSD ignition unit going bad since i had fuel presure. I picked it up and finally drove it home. It ran fine on the drive home, but the idle problem was still there.

The next day the car died. I replaced the cap/rotr/igniter and the MSD.... nuthin...
Luckily i got Steve Sakai to come and check out what was going on. We found out that the ECU was shot. The CE light would come on sporadically w/out storing a code and the short term fuel trim was constantly at -50 or 100% and would not reset once power was cut. This still left the question....why was the car stalling? We went for a ride and sure enough it did it. What was it? The 3 bar map sensor wiring was messed up giving erroneous readings to the ecu.
It is very hard to believe that Inline Pro could not pick this up in 2 weeks when it took Steve 1 1/2 hr to figure it out.

So i needed a new p75 ecu, and i also wanted Steve to re-tune my hondata, i wasn't very happy with 10lbs of boost.
So i got a new ecu and went to get it tuned. At about 14 psi on 93 octance the head lifted/HG blew making 311WHP. I didn't understand why this happened. So, the engine was dissassembled. Kepp in mind the engine has about 6k miles on it since it was built by inline.
Here we go:
-To begin, the headstuds seemed to be real tight, and seemed like oil was put on the thread.
-There was NO COPPER SPRAY WHAT SO EVER.



-Tranny bolts were backing out along with the knock sensor.

I used my fingers to back it out.

The knock sensor was also working itself out.

-Here u can see the block w/no spray and also u can see the unusual wear on the cyl walls. (this is at 6k miles) It could eitehr be from incorrect clearances or it could have overheated.

Im sorry, my digi is not good w/close ups, but the wear on the walls were bad. Seemed like it had close to 100k+ miles on it let alone 6k.

-The balancer shafts were off. 2 teeth on the front one, 1 tooth on the back one. Couldn't get a pic of that unfortunatly.

-What ended up being the oil leak was that the rear main housing was leaking.

-The dowels on the head/block looked like someone had tried to pull them out with a wrench, and then put them back.

-My magnetic oil pan had copper shavings on them = bearings. My hypothesis is that the balancer shafts being off caused some sort of oscilation/vibration in the rotating assembly of the engine and thus caused the copper shavings.

-A spacer that goes between the block and the crank pulley was missing. This caused the timing belt to me shifted to the passenger side maybe 2mm. But this was enough that you could see where the belt had been shimmying up onto the pulley a bit and it was covered in rubber dust. I did not realize this at the time because this was the first time i had seen the posistion of the timing belt since the cover was cut at the time of the rebuild.

-Heres a pic of the intake manifold...just to give u an idea of thier work. This is the original gasket that was on there before the rebuild. They just stacked a new one on there, quality huh? Also in this pic u can see the cylinder walls and the wear on them.


-The threads on the ARP studs were damaged so i will need new ones. I dunno what could have caused that...

Afterwards i talked to Stan@Inline. I told him about the missing copper spray, and the balance shafts being off, and some of the many other problems.
His response was that he didn't think i should have gone past 10 psi.
He said Inline Pro normally does not use copper spray. I told him that he told both the previous owner and I that they did use copper spray. I couldn't believe my ears. His response was " I do not recall that conversation."
At that point there were just gross signs of incomptent workmanship.
Inline's offer was that they guarenteed thier work, and that they would take care of it if i brought it in.
I refused. I'd rather have someone I know will do it right do it even if i have to pay for it. Now it is at a different shop whom i trust. I demanded to be compensated somehow but they refused and only offered to fix thier work. I do not want to risk that. Now the block is in the process of being examined at the machine shop, but preliminary examinations look like ill need a re-bore and new pistons along with all the R&R. About 10k was paid to rebuild the engine at Inline, and it seems like i will be puttin out about 5k more to have it done right.
I am very dissapointed at thier work.

Main pupose of this post is to warn u guys that Inline aint that great. Rigth now im giving a smaller shop a shot, and i am happy thus far.





Modified by MordecaiPSI at 6:37 PM 6/21/2003
Old 06-20-2003, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (MordecaiPSI)

oh boy thats a shitty story man best of luck
Old 06-20-2003, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (94goldjungsr)

Thanks. At this point i just want to drive my car sometime this summer...
Sucks bumming rides.
Old 06-20-2003, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (jz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i wonder what could have caused the head to left? </TD></TR></TABLE> No copper spray, the threads were badd. Makes me think that they were improperly torqued down. Oh also, Inline does not recomend re-torqueing of ARP studs.
Old 06-20-2003, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (MordecaiPSI)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MordecaiPSI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks. At this point i just want to drive my car sometime this summer...
Sucks bumming rides. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i feel you man. ive been out of my ecu for almost 3 months now, and uberdick claims to not even have it anymore... i dont even know what to do.
Old 06-20-2003, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (94goldjungsr)

wow ! good luck man !
Old 06-20-2003, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (AcuraFreak)

Thanks, just goes to show how a shop's reputation can be misleading.
Old 06-20-2003, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (MordecaiPSI)

Wow, that's definetly a shame man. Apparently there are alot of new people working there compared to a couple years ago so maybe these people's work aren't quite upto par as some of the old workers..?

IMO though I would give the car back to inline and have them at least try to fix everything. Because if something does happen again you could hold them liable. That's completely upto you, but if you can afford to just take it somewhere else I would then. The sad thing is that there wasn't just one or two things wrong, there seemed to be a bunch of things... Do you know who did your work on the car and who built the motor?

Regarding the cam gears that just blows. I can't believe they just broke like that. Definetly would make me worried if I was running them. Either way good luck with your car man!

-Mike

Old 06-20-2003, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (SlowTeg)

Yea i kept quite about the Cam Gears cause i didn't wanan give Inline a bad name.(HAH) And they did take care of it. I do not know who the actual tech was since i only talked to Stan. I just couldn't sleep at night knowing they could f-up again. I was considering having the car towed to inline to break down the engine, but u guys really think they would have told me bout the wear on the cyls, the balancer shafst being off, the copper shavings, etc etc? ...or would they have just slapped on a new HG and told me everything was dandy.
Old 06-20-2003, 06:16 PM
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I worked at a law office for some time, just keep documention of everything and persue it legally. They claim to stand by their work, so make them. Hope you have better luck with your new shop.

Old 06-20-2003, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: (jvschlegel)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jvschlegel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I worked at a law office for some time, just keep documention of everything and persue it legally. They claim to stand by their work, so make them. Hope you have better luck with your new shop.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was considering this. But I think a Judge would say that i didn't give them an oppurtunity to correct the mistake. He migth rule in my favor if they f-ed up time after time. Also u have to consider that there was a change of owner during all this. The invoice was done in my friend's name at the time, and Stan said to me that the guarentee is void after the change of owners "technically", but that Inline would still stand by thier work.
I dunno just the amount and kind of mistakes they have made just does not make me wanna go back there. I dunno WHO works on the H series at that shop... Yea seems like thier B series guys r pretty good though.
Old 06-20-2003, 06:22 PM
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Default Re:

Most cam gears that "look" like they're "going fast" with swept-back ears for attachment to the outer gear are as weak as they look. Take a good look at the gears before you buy them. If they look "frilly", they generally are. Good cam gears look functional, and nothing else.
Look at the gears and ask yourself if you'd drive a car with wheels on it that were configured the same way.......
Old 06-20-2003, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Re: (Woofer)

Yea, those were replaced with sold ones. Thats teh least of my worries now....
Old 06-20-2003, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (MordecaiPSI)

that ******* sucks man Well good luck and i hope they Help u out with something after spendin 10K there
Old 06-20-2003, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (Black DC2)

We'll see. Still deciding whether i feel like the extra hassle of takeing legal action.
Old 06-20-2003, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (MordecaiPSI)

If the bullshit continues, take legal action
Old 06-20-2003, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (bretx0r)

Well at this point theyve refused any compensation, only that theyd fix it if i took it in.
Old 06-20-2003, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (bretx0r)


that sucks!
very unlucky for you.
Try to see if others had a problem during the same period!

All I know is my mani is still holding and it was bought before change of ownership(I beleive)
I wonder what art, and jinx are gonna say/think.

goodluck though

Not everyone can be perfect all the time, but it looks like they messed up more than once on the same car, so thats a little much.
Old 06-20-2003, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (SiRkid)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiRkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
that sucks!
very unlucky for you.
Try to see if others had a problem during the same period!

All I know is my mani is still holding and it was bought before change of ownership(I beleive)
I wonder what art, and jinx are gonna say/think.

goodluck though

Not everyone can be perfect all the time, but it looks like they messed up more than once on the same car, so thats a little much.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea i posted this knowing there r stout supporters. I can see how **** could happen....but how could they not pick up on balancer shafts being off, bolts backin out, etc., when they had a second shot to re-examine it when they did the valve/cam gear job?

And the tuning?? I ended up replacing so many parts because of the stalling problem only to find out it was the 3 bar map sensor!
Right now all my energy/concern is going to re-building the engine. After i have that taken care of my friend has a lawyer who might have fun tackling this. We'll see.
Old 06-20-2003, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (MordecaiPSI)

Don't be a fool take it back to them! If they **** it up the next then pursue leagal action.... You don't want to lose all that money. You would imagine they would do a better job this time?\\

Best of luck
Old 06-20-2003, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (MordecaiPSI)

Take a straight edge and feeler gauges and check that the sleeves are either even with the deck or stepped above the deck. They may have sunk and that is why you keep blowing gaskets! Ask me how I know TWICE! Plus 2 other cars local with the same problem with GE blocks. Just something to take a look at, it may not be the problem but it may also. Sorry about your bad luck, I know how you feel, I have been down since last May, car was up twice for maybe a total of 3 months but the GE sleeves dropped Motor about to go back in now Darton sleeved block with some new goodies Good luck again
Old 06-20-2003, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (Boostfed)

The block is step decked. Its at the machine shop right now and im sure they will check the sleeves.
Old 06-21-2003, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (MordecaiPSI)

Ouch... If i were you i would have taken it back to inline pro, and watch them do the work and/or help...

but that's me.

sucks for you though, seriously :\
Old 06-21-2003, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (MordecaiPSI)

yeesh, that sucks man, what bore is your motor? if it's stock, i'll sell you my JE 9:1 pistons.
Old 06-21-2003, 04:44 AM
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Default Re: My bad expirience with Inline Pro. Yea i said it. 56k warning (PreIudeSI)

Wow that is really discouraging. By any chance are you taking your car to the show down the street from them off of backlick?


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