SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

I've seen the heat shields for turbos that come from the factory. That would probably be a good idea.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

No problem

Tony the Tiger

Just FYI, if you removed the seal near the cowl or space out the hood, it will cause your windows to fog up almost immediately if you drive in the rain. Your vents will keep pulling hot moist air from the engine bay, and it will never defog your windshield.

One of the hottest locations in most engine bay is behind the shock towers near the firewall. It is the same reason why most performance cars have "fender vents" that allow hot air to escape the engine bay. Having fender vents will actually eliminate most of the hot air temps under the intake manifold and along the firewall.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

That is a good point

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Got my turbo blanket in the mail today, talk about perfect timing! Now it is a ebay version, but I'm hopeful that it will still do pretty good. Currently I'm in talks with DEI to try and get one of their's for testing purposes. It's clear skies outside and starting to warm up to our testing temperature so let me get off of here and do some more testing. Here is a quick photo:



Will have some test results in a few hours and I'll be conducting the test on the following:

60 mph roll (post wrapped manifold)
Turbo blanket under hood temps (idle)
Turbo blanket under hood temps (60 mph)
Charge piping temps IAT and probe (idle/60mph/WOT)
*Depending on charge piping temps will determine if Reflect A Gold heat tape is applied. If heat tape is applied before and after data will be posted. Thanks everyone for the ideas and support.

Black R

Fwiw, a lot of people say doing hood spacers is bad aka it doesn't let heat out and only sucks in air from the windshield low pressure area.

My testing has showed lower water temps and iat's however, with the hood spacers.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

We've found something better than the gold foil. It's woven like carbon/kevlar and comes in sheets with an adhesive backing but will take more temperature than the gold foil, we use it in the tunnel above the exhaust and the inside of the car stays at ambient, especially the center console... now you can rest your arm on it without getting hot.

I intend to do the same thing you've done... coating, wrapping, shielding, etc.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Lavamat

Seen here

http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/pr...ield-mat/79/21

It performs much better than the gold foil, especially in tight quarters

daintegjdm

Any data from today's testing?

th3pwn3r

The stuff definitely isn't cheap but I'm pretty sure it's a good investment.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

it works wonders, and the adhesive is also formulated to withstand high temps... we've tried the silver stuff in the past and the heat causes either the adhesive to pull away from the car or the insulation to pull away from the adhesive.

and for being woven like a sheet of CF its very flexible

DougNuts

The base of the windshield is a *high* pressure area. Running hood spacers lets air go into the engine bay whilst driving.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

hood spacers do cool the engine bay off..

import tuner did a test back to back on a stock car and saw a prety decent drop in temps

the air in front of the bumper is high pressure, higher pressure than the air at the base of the windshield, this basically forces air through the engine bay... normally the air that enter the engine bay exits under the car, causing lift.. hood spacers, at moderate to high speeds actually helps with a small amount of downforce as the air is no longer exiting under the car but over it

Black R

Typo, but you get the gist.

Tony the Tiger

In order to solve cooling issues, we have to determine when and how the engine is running hot.

Engine bay temps is not a huge concern for coolant temps if the heat can be channelled away from the radiator. It is only a concern if it starts to melt surrounding components and electronics.

Opening up the cowl area via hood spacers or removing the seal, only helps cooling issues assosciated with low air speeds. If your car is overheating when sitting in traffic, then this allows the engine bay to vent heat out. It works for most people with poorly ducted radiators and weak engine fans.

However, there are so many things I would do before I get into hood spacers. On my Integra, I've ducted the radiator fan outlet to channel air out under the car (below the transmission) and block off all the sides in front of the radiator. This prevented the fan from choking on its own heat when the engine bay is fully saturated after sitting in traffic for a hour or so. The fan can only pull fresh air past the intercooler and not recycled hot air inside the engine bay. It solves 99% of the cooling issues assosciated with traffic jams and autocrossers when coupled with a half decent thin fan.

If you are on a circuit (roadracing) or during a spirited highway cruise and the engine is running hot under load, then spacing out the hood will hurt cooling performance. The cowl is a high pressure area when you pick up speed, and this pressure will completely work against the pressure at the front of the car and flowing through the engine bay. Not only you will bottle up the hot air inside the engine bay, but you are also preventing air from passing through the radiator smoothly as well. A hood vent is the only method to solve cooling issues at higher speeds. Air that goes into the frontal area, must have a way out to properly cool the cores (rad, oil cooler, A/C condensor, FMIC, etc..).

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Ok got some more results, sorry it took so long but I was able to do the following test over the weekend:

-60 mph post turbo manifold wrap temp test
-Turbo blanket underhood temps @ idle
-Turbo blanket 60 mph test
*Spool time improvements noticed
-Charge piping temp test @ turbo (14" away from turbo) (idle)
-Charge piping temp test @ turbo (14" away from turbo) (60mph)
-Charge piping temp test @ turbo (14" away from turbo) (WOT 12.2 psi)
-Charge piping temp test @ throttle body (idle)
-Charge piping temp test @ throttle body (60mph)
-Charge piping temp test @ throttle body (WOT 12.6 psi)

I did include pictures of my data logs for the aforementioned test. I was not able to get closer to the turbo during the charge piping test because I was doing this in the driveway and couldn't get to it. Time, money and a lot of effort has gone into this, so hopefully this information will be useful to all! On to the results.

Temperatures dropped dramatically after the turbo manifold was wrapped while cruising at 60 mph. Temperatures dropped from 113 degrees to 58 degrees for a total temperature reduction of 55 degrees from the probe behind the driver's side headlight.



Next I moved the probe next to the radiator and drop in temperature was noted there as well. Before temperature readings came in at 102 degrees, this time after the manifold was wrapped temps came in at 56 degrees for a total reduction of 46 degrees.



Next I moved the probe between the intake manifold and firewall and a drop in temperature was noted there as well. Temperatures before the manifold wrap came in at 138 degrees, after the wrap temps came in at 87 degrees for a total reduction of 54 degrees.



An average reduction of 66 degrees in the engine bay while cruising at 60 mph, that is pretty substantial.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Ok next up I installed my turbo blanket and conducted an idle and 60 mph roll temperature test in the same manner as the last test.

The first temperature taken was from behind the driver's side headlight at idle. An average reduction of 10 degrees was noted.



I then moved the probe behind the radiator and an average reduction of 5 degrees was noted.



I then moved the probe between the intake manifold and firewall and an average reduction of 9 degrees was noted.



The turbo blanket netted a total under hood temperature reduction of 8 degrees at idle.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Now came the 60 mph test of the turbo blanket. This test was conducted a little different then the rest, as the temperature taken from behind the driver's side headlight was about the same as the temperature taken (Post Heat Wrap @ 60 mph). After taking the initial reading behind the headlight and noticing that it was the same I did not go further and take the other two readings.

The temperature noted was about the same as the temperature noted during the 60 mph roll (post mani wrap). There was actually an increase in temp by 1 degree. So I think it's safe to say that the turbo blanket did not help us here although my oil temps were higher during this test.

*An increase in spool time was noticed during this test (butt dyno) lol, but I will compare data logs to confirm.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Next up was the charge piping temperature testing. The entire probe was inserted into the charge piping approximately 14" away from the turbo. As stated earlier I was unable to get the probe any closer, as I was unable to reach it at the time. Even though this was the case the probe was closer to the turbo than it was to the intercooler.

The purpose of this test was to determine if the temperatures inside of the charge piping were higher or lower then the under hood temps. As stated before if the charge piping temps were lower then the under hood temps reflective heat tape would be applied and more readings taken to look for improvements in IAT's.

The results were a little interesting. A total of 7 test were conducted during idle. Temperature changes were noted every time the radiator fan would kick on just like previous tests. An average temperature of 120 degrees was noted with the probe 14" away from the turbo at idle.







After plugging all of the numbers into excel I noticed that at first the probe temps were higher then my IAT's. The probe temps and IAT's eventually leveled out to around the same temperature though. This test tells me that the heat that is generated from the turbo (@ idle) has a large influence on charge piping temperatures even though the turbo is not spinning very much.

My highest temperature recorded after the turbo blanket was installed @ idle was 121 degrees, thats one degree hotter then the temperatures inside the charge piping. Being that my charge piping is made of aluminum I would have reason to believe that radiant heat from the engine bay is playing a role in the high charge piping temps @ idle.

Right now this may seem like a no brainer to wrap the charge piping with the reflective heat tape to combat the radiating heat in the engine bay, but just wait until you see the numbers at a 60 mph roll and WOT.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

After the idle test I moved on to the 60 mph roll charge piping test. The probe was still in the same spot (approximately 14" from the turbo). I drove approximately 5 miles just like the last test and held the speed to as close to 60 mph as possible.

An immediate reduction in charge piping temp was noted, going from a peak idle temp of 132 degrees to 101 degrees at 60 mph. This showed a total reduction of 31 degrees. A reduction was shown across the board except for my oil temperatures that stayed about the same.



Now if you remember by under hood temps at 60 mph (after turbo blanket) was 59 degrees, this shows that the charge piping is hotter then the under hood temperature by 42 degrees. Now I know that the reflect a gold heat tape is supposed to radiate heat away from whatever it is wrapping, but it would also have some insulating properties about it as well. Now I'm not sure how much heat the charge piping is capable of radiating before the intercooler, but I would bet that it wouldn't radiate the heat enough to lower the temperature by 43 degrees to be lower then the under hood temps.

Conclusion: so far I'm not seeing a reason to wrap the charge piping coming from the turbo to the intercooler, as it will hold more heat in then it's radiating. It would be better to leave it unwrapped as the under hood temperatures are 42 degrees cooler then the charge piping between the turbo and intercooler.

Finland

Great thread. I'm personally dreading the Phoenix summer. My integra has been boosted since 2002 or 2003. Never had any cooling issues with the stock radiator, FAL dual fans, A/C and old school revhard cast manifold.

I recently changed to a larger turbo and ramshorn manifold (forced a switch to a half radiator) and thicker, larger FMIC. The other change is that this motor now has a block guard, not sure if that makes a difference. What I've noticed since changing setups is that now my oil temp will go to 220 easily and it's still relatively cool here in Phoenix (probably 70 ish degrees during the day). The oil temp goes warm after sustained highway driving at about 70-80 mph. At slower speed, the oil temp mimics ECT.

I searched exhaust wrap and landed on this thread. Although I see your net oil temp really stayed the same, the rest of the data has me sold on exhaust wrap for sure.

I already have hood spacers and punched some vent holes in the hood, but I know my manifold has to be causing some of the heat soak.

Thanks for the extremely useful data!!

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Next was the same charge piping test, but now at wide open throttle (WOT). I conducted the test in 3rd gear and the probe was still approximately 14" away from the turbo.

As expected the temperatures inside the charge piping rose from the temps taken at 60 mph (101 degrees). As I conducted the test my boost pressures rose to a peak of 12.2 psi, yielding a peak charge piping temperature of 163 degrees. Now this shows an increase of 62 degrees when compared to cruising temps. I did however notice a 5 degree decrease in IAT's during the pull.



Datalog of the pull during the test.



Photo taken of the temperature sensor right after the pull. *NOTE: the picture indicates a temp of 161 degrees. I was unable to snap the photo when it read it's highest temp of 163 degrees as I was driving 80 mph so sorry lol!!



Conclusion: this further backs up my hypothesis from earlier, wrapping the charge piping between the turbo and intercooer with anything will hurt efficiency, performance, IAT's and possible detonation if your already on the edge of your fuels octane rating.

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

The next test conducted were the temps of the charge piping at the throttle body. This test just like the rest was conducted at idle, 60 mph roll and WOT.

Now the first thing that I noticed was the huge reduction in temperature compared to the reading that was taken at the turbo. I was seeing consistent readings of 73 degrees and holding pretty steady. This showed a reduction of 53 degrees when compared to the peak number at the turbo. This test was also effective as it showed how much heat soak effects the IAT's just on the other side of the throttle body from my probe. I was seeing IAT's as high as 131 degrees, even though just on the other side of the throttle body temps are a measly 73 degrees! WOW, I hate you heat soak lol!!









Conclusion: Post turbo blanket (idle) my temperatures behind the radiator, right next to my intercooler pipe that runs to my throttle body was 125 degrees. Now being that the charge piping temperatures are lower then the engine bay temps, I would wrap the charge piping from the intercooler to the throttle body with reflective heat tape to keep that air charge as cold and dense as possible!! WRAP AWAY!!

SRDFTITAN

iTrader: (3)

Next up was the 60 mph test of the charge piping at the throttle body. During this test charge piping temps dropped even more with a consistent temperature of 64 degrees. Thats a 9 degree reduction when compared to the idle temp. There was also a 41 degree drop in IAT's.





Conclusion: Now remember that my under hood temps at 60 mph (post wrap) were 56 degrees. Now your probably thinking; he just told us in the last post to wrap the intercooler piping between the intercooler and throttle body, but the temperature of the charge piping is higher then the temperature of the engine bay at 60 mph!?

Here is my theory: If we can radiate as much heat as possible with reflective heat tape during idle, this will make your starting charge piping temp lower then if un-wrapped. We saw the temperature drop from 73 degrees at idle to 64 degrees at 60 mph un-wrapped. I feel that if the piping is wrapped it will reduce the charge piping temps even more, making the under hood temperature of 56 degrees irrelevant. Just my theory, don't kill me, will be wrapping the piping from the intercooler to the throttle body shortly!!

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Those idle temps are awfully high leaving the turbo... I'd the probe fully inside of the charge pipe? If not your readings are being skewed by air leaving the radiator.

I normally see turbo outlet temps only a few degrees above ambient at idle but I have my filter outside of the engine bay

And wrapping it won't necessarily hinder performance, if it comes close to the downpipe it needs to be wrapped because radiant heat from the downpipe will soak into the charge piping.

And if the charge piping is in the path of air exiting the intercooler, that will cause heat soak all the time.
Anywhere the piping is in a hot air situation (say inside the engine bay) the aluminum will ultimately absorb that ambient heat and transfer it to the charge air.

Also what kind of filter/intake setup are you using? If the filter is in the engine bay that will cause high base turbo inlet temps. Measuring ambient air outside the car but having the intake in the engine bay skews results.

You need to remember how hot the engine bay gets... you've got 180* plus air leaving the radiator, heat from the exhaust manifold and the engine itself.... it gets pretty hot.

That's why I ceramic coat/wrap everything... turbine housing, compressor housing, exhaust/intake manifold, downpipe, etc in an effort to minimize thermal transfer to the intake air. I also will be running my filter behind the upper grille (97 civic ex coupe) so it gets the coldest air possible, as well as wrapping the intake pipe from filter to turbo.

Another good thing to do is run a phenolic gasket between the head and intake manifold to minimize heat transfer from the motor, as well as between throttle body and intake manifold.., as well as ceramic coating the intake manifold, as where it's located in the back of the engine bay with little air circulation will cause it to heat soak quickly

I think if you tried wrapping all of the charge piping in the engine bay (leave the piping that's exposed to ambient air alone, piping that goes to the intercooler inlet/outlet outside of the engine bay) and you should see a considerable drop in IATs at the intake manifold.

And another good idea is to put either gold foil or lavamat on the backside of the intercooler end tanks to prevent radiant heat from soaking the intercooler as well.

.
I know it seems overkill but if you're going for maximum efficiency then that's the way to go