rmcdaniels

Got my new dual-sequential charger setup on the car tonight, dual sequential charger using a JRSC and a GT3071R turbo. It's a true sequential setup, the SC makes boost off idle and it is slowly bypassed as the turbo spools up to 18 PSI. I made an analog feedback loop to control the transition and it is so smooth and gradual that I can't feel the switchover. JDogg did the tuning and there's a bit more to do after I make some tweaks to the system.

Here’s some pics/vids:

Dyno (turbo vs. dual):


I lost 20 WHP up high and gained 50 WHP down low, it feels much faster now.

Dyno Video:

http://s115271005.onlinehome.u...s.wmv

Engine Pic:



This thing rocks, power delivery is smooth as butter. there's some more power in there with some more tuning, especially the cams, I just have the stock cam gears on it now. This is the first run of the prototype. I'm pretty happy with it.


Modified by rmcdaniels at 2:21 AM 6/29/2005


Modified by rmcdaniels at 9:29 AM 6/29/2005


Modified by rmcdaniels at 8:12 PM 7/3/2005


Modified by rmcdaniels at 5:41 AM 6/10/2008

norcalcrx

Cool....please post up some times when you take it to the track.

Ps. vids dont work.

done

What were the air intake temps like?

DAmn

Now theres somethin you dont see everyday

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jordo@KAP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What were the air intake temps like?</TD></TR></TABLE>

130-160 degrees, higher than turbo by itself, but lower than SC by itself at 10-11 PSI

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by norcalcrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cool....please post up some times when you take it to the track.

Ps. vids dont work.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Will do, although I think this will be better for autox or road course than for drag racing.

I fixed the vid link.

SOHC_MShue

Do you have any traction?

D-tuned

what are you using to bypass the supercharger when the turbo is spooled? Care to give more details about the analog feedback loop that you have setup to control the transition

keebler65

mad props to you man

care to elaborate on the "analog feedback loop"? when in the higher RPMs, is the blower bypassed?

POWERINTEGRA

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you have any traction? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually traction is much better than it was with the turbo alone. The torque delivery is so much smoother that it is much easier to control with the accelerator. Non-linear torque delivery was always one of the things that pissed me off about my turbo setup. This thing delivers power much more predictably.

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2000civicsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what are you using to bypass the supercharger when the turbo is spooled? Care to give more details about the analog feedback loop that you have setup to control the transition</TD></TR></TABLE>

I extended the throttle body and modified the JRSC intake manifold plenum so I could add a big bypass valve that lets the SC recirc when opened. I use a checkball with a small bleeder hole set to just shy of my overall target boost to control the valve. As the cumulative boost from the turbo and the SC approaches my target (18 PSI in tbhis case), the valve starts to open, which starts to open the bypass valve, which lowers the boost the SC makes, so the valve stops opening until the turbo makes more boost and the overall boost hits the target, then it starts opening more, etc., until the valve is completely open, the SC is completely bypassed, and the turbo is making all the boost. I can't believe how smoothly it operates, I can't feel the transition at all.

RacerXI

Completely wicked setup.

StolenTeg

This is my personal opinion so it not meant toward anyone, but it seem like the supercharger isnt doing much, if you want a better low-end you could have just gone with a smaller turbo that would start making power at around 3.5k and still probably would be able to make the same amount of power. So i think that it pretty much a waste of money to spend the money on the superchager, the only pros i see about it is that mostly likely your the only one around with it

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rmcdaniels &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually traction is much better than it was with the turbo alone. The torque delivery is so much smoother that it is much easier to control with the accelerator. Non-linear torque delivery was always one of the things that pissed me off about my turbo setup. This thing delivers power much more predictably.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yea your definintly right about that. Its pretty hard to control the power delivery with a slower spooling turbo.

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StolenTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is my personal opinion so it not meant toward anyone, but it seem like the supercharger isnt doing much, if you want a better low-end you could have just gone with a smaller turbo that would start making power at around 3.5k and still probably would be able to make the same amount of power. So i think that it pretty much a waste of money to spend the money on the superchager, the only pros i see about it is that mostly likely your the only one around with it</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's exactly what I used to think, so I tried it before I made the dual-charger setup. I used a GT28RS and the dyno results were this (please ignore the junk above 5200, the clutch was slipping on that run, I fixed it later but don't have the dyno results):



The torque delivery was so non-linear that it was about impossible to control when boost came on. Plus the low-RPM torque from around 2700-4500 is nowhere near as fat as the turbo/SC setup, and there's still some work to do on the dual-charger setup that will fill in the bottom end more and spool the turbo faster. Also running a smaller turbo across so much of its efficiency range made for some difficult fuel maps (you can ask JDogg about that, he did the tune), we had to run it very rich at high RPM/boost to the point that it covered my car in black crud and would carbon-foul my plugs. After driving both setups, the dual-charger setup is night/day better than the smaller turbo/faster spool setup, especially for applications that require the controlled gradual application of power, like accelerating out of a turn at autox or a road course or even driving in the rain.




Modified by rmcdaniels at 9:40 AM 6/29/2005

EJ1 wilcox

Wow

Excellent job.

I'm glad you are happy with the results. I bet it's nice to have good low end, mid range, AND top end power... I wonder what that feels like? LoL...

Tinker219

wow, torque before Vtec...on a B16a
Id like to have my webmasters car(Atheist) dyno'd. He gets full boost insanely quick with his 28/71R...

MidShipCivic

Why did you disable the supercharger?

IMO theres no point in doing it from the gains you have.

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tinker219 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow, torque before Vtec...on a B16a
Id like to have my webmasters car(Atheist) dyno'd. He gets full boost insanely quick with his 28/71R...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Holy crap, I totally forgot about VTEC. With a SC on there I can set it to activate way low, like 2500 RPM. Between that and the cam gears I think this is going to get even more fun.

Snail Tuning

Nice setup. almost 400whp, and your getting great lowend torq, that must be nice driving it around. could you post some pics or you bypass stuff?

get some videos of it driven on the street.

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidShipCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why did you disable the supercharger?

IMO theres no point in doing it from the gains you have.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Based on my testing usiing a bead-wire sensor I made that fits in the nitrous port on the JRSC intake and measures the temp of the output stream of the SC, the Eaton M62 blower really hates being over-driven and responds by putting out increasingly hotter air. I've got the JRSC set up to make about 12 PSI, and if I didn't bypass it then it would still be making 12 PSI over whatever the turbo puts out at peak RPM, at which point it would be putting our air that's about 100 degrees hotter than it is now making at peak boost. At peak boost now the air is around 160 degrees, which is not as cool as I'd like, but the engine seems to like it. At around 250 degrees I'd have to call the project a failure, that's just too hot. Actually anything over 200 degrees would be unacceptable for this application. I thought about running the chargers concurrently and using the LHT JRSC intercooler setup, but I figured it was a lot less expensive and complex to build the bypass assembly and just use the charger that's actually efficient at high boost/RPM to make top end power. This setup will get better with some more tuning and some refinements to the bypass assembly, and maybe I can get someone talented like Cody to do some work on it and get rid of a few of the 90 degree bends in the intake air path so it flows better on the top end.

UberTeg

did you try just sending the turbo air str8 thru the blower w/out bypassing it?

b13bliss

Don't you love it when a plan comes together? At what rpm are you seeing 18psi? Are you running the .63 a/r turbine housing or .82? I bet that car is a lot of fun now

LoSt is BlaCk

damn that is sick!!!