Hectic937

Asking for help on figuring out how to set my ignition timing that already has a tune. I am still new to engine management, so I know I must be doing something wrong. The motor and ECU i bought from somebody, but it came with no dizzy, starter, alt and some other stuff so I have no idea where the dizzy is supposed to be set for timing. The ecu has hondata s300 v1 on it with a dyno tune for the motor. It's a pretty simple setup but i got it for a really good price that I will be building off of but for right now I just want it running correctly. I have researched my best and all i can get from people is the normal "use a timing light", "use smanager and use the set timing option". I used an inductive timing light with smanager to try and set the timing. I had to completely advance the dizzy after hitting the set timing option and the cams and crank all lined up. After hitting close on the set timing window i took it for a drive and it drove like ****. It felt as if I had no throttle control at all, it would barely go. Pulled it back in the garage, hooked it back up to smanager and did some research. Looked through smanager and I am completely stumped still. Yes I checked the mechanical timing twice and even had a friend re-check it for me everything is good. The cam gears are adjustable, and the intake side is advanced 1 mark which on these +2 degrees (that's what it was set at for the tune). I set the cam gear back to 0 when checking timing though. I have never had to redo ignition timing without knowing where it previously was. Ill list some specs of the build below. Any help would be appreciated.

B20z stock block
b16 head
type r cams
type r IM + TB
Skunk 2 tuner adjustable cam gears
ctr crank pulley

OneBadTurboCRV

Then you never have done ignition timing. Do NOT move your cam gears around to zero to set base timing. You throw everything off... It sounds like whatever your tune is was done without base timing being set so most likely a novice tuner did it.

All you do lock the timing through SManager and then use a timing light to set the distibutor. Very simple stuff and it sounds like you are doing it right. The other problem is different distributors will have the pick-ups clocked slightly different so the previous settings are a moot point anyways.

Get yourself a new tune or try to add or remove timing to bring the map back to where it needs to be. Posting a screen shot of the timing tables may help here.

Hectic937

Like i said i am still new to engine management. But no i did not move the cams to set ignition timing, but to check my mechanical timing. They were moved back to attempt to set the ignition timing. The tuner that did it is a very big tuning company here in ohio so i dont think it was done by a novice, but me being a novice lol. I will post pics tonight when i get off work.

OneBadTurboCRV

Either way you don't need to move cam gear settings to check mechanical timing, that's not how they work. The outer part with the cogs stays stationery while the inside moves. All the marks on the outside still oine up as they should. That's the whole point of an adjustable cam gear. I assumed you meant you moved them to zero to check ignition timing - my bad.

Also, from what I have seen, big reputable company or not, it's been my experience that corners still get cut where they can. If it was a straight fee for tuning, taking the small amount of time to set base timing might be skipped on especially depending on if they were busy or what day / time it was. Get where I am going with this now?

Hectic937

Heres a screenshot of one of the tables in the tune.

OneBadTurboCRV

Yeah, there's your sign... See the 7.0° timing in the top left of the map? It shows they didn't sync the distributor for the tune. (Unless someone can logically explain why in the hell you would EVER have such low timing at idle - I have NEVER seen this (aside from not being synced).) So you can risk applying around +9° to the entire low and high cam map or do it the right way and get a retune. In my opinion, that is your ONLY option.

Hectic937

This is what i was afraid of. So it isnt possible to re-sync the timing to 7 just to run the tune properly even though it sucks? Im not trying to be cheap, i just simply want to have the car running for autocross. Its not my daily. I had plans to make changes this winter then get it retuned anyways. I dont want to retune now, then this winter change stuff and get it retuned again.

theYBLEGAL

If you're off by a fixed amount, a retune would be nothing other than verifying what is said is truth, then applying +9 to the whole map.

Tuning is nothing more than paying close attention to the engine during a test. You just need to test it.

Sounds like you'll probably be fine by adding a fixed amount though, but just test it. If you get knock, back off. Common sense?

OneBadTurboCRV

No offense, but my replies are based on the assumption you don't know how to tune yourself due to the questions that are being asked. If you knew how, you would have done it already.

Anyways... You could try to resync the distributor but at this point I personally would rather lock timing at 16.5°, set the distributor, and advance both the low and high cam ignition maps by 9°. Drive it easy and check / listen for knock. Check your plugs to verify you are good and keep an eye on your wideband. If everything checks out, then do a WOT pull and reverify everything again. If it looks good drive it for a while, and keep an eye on things until you feel comfortable everything is good to go.

The reason for me saying to synchronize the distributor, is it turns into your control. Trying to move the distributor from 16 to 12 to 10 to 9 to 11 to 7 to 14 degrees would be a royal PITA and a complete waste of time. This can all be done with a push of a button without lifting your hood by changing table values. You have a aftermarket EMS for a reaon - use it.

Click on Ignition Map Tables.
CTRL + A
CTRL + J
Then adjust the box by number.
Hit OK.

***BE SURE TO SAVE YOUR ORIGINAL FILE BEFORE MAKING CHANGES AND SAVE EACH CHANGE AS A SEPARATE FILE!!!***

Hectic937

I'm not at all taking offence to your advise. Like said before, I am new to a lot of this and appreciate your helpfulness. After doing as much research and using what knowledge and skills i currently have I came here because I was unsure of what to do and how to do it. I will try the better option and re-set the timing and advance my maps. Ill do the maps tonight and re-load it tomorrow to test and check. I will verify the new maps are correct before loading and make sure I keep an original copy of the tune.

VegasInvasion

If you have to advance your distributor all the way then it's most definitely a cam timing issue. Either your cam is off a tooth, you're using the wrong cams, the timing belt is loose, or the head/block is shaved way beyond spec. You shouldn't even need adjustable cam gears for that setup.

turbonetics3597

Keep in mind that map pic is actual ignition timing without dwell I would set to 16 start it and watch the ecu table it will vary greatly from cold to hot but 7 degrees is no where near what it should be my opinion

OneBadTurboCRV

This may be true with factory distributors, but definitely isn't always the case with aftermarket ones. Things can be perfect everywhere else in the motor but the distrubutor is clocked incorrectly internally. I have seen this PLENTY of times.

VegasInvasion

If that's the case there's a potential for frying the coil if your dwell falls outside of the contact range, but given the lack of power without misfire issues I'm still sold on a cam timing issue, which may be a result of the CTR pulley. I've never used that combination, it would be wise to compare the marks on the CTR pulley to the B20Z pulley to eliminate a possible offset there.
Alternatively I would check grounds and dizzy wires to rule out translation issues to the ECU, and possibly another ECU just in case the HC boards are misbehaving. I had a bad P06 recently that kept advancing timing but it never threw any codes, just wouldn't stop detonating. Replaced it, ran perfectly.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

7 degrees isnt way off.

My base timing is at 10 degrees and i let the ecu do what it needs to to keep my idle at my target rpm.

More than one way to skin a cat

Disclaimer: i do this with aem im not sure if hondata has the ign idle trims for this