scissorfighter

Folks,
Following is a conversation I had today with another forum member regarding an upgrade I did on my Honda. I'm posting the whole thread here, perhaps some of you may find some useful information in it. I know I had a lot of questions before I started, and there are probably other people out there who could learn from my mistakes. Thanks!
Ryan

--------------------------------

>Ryan,
>I saw you post at Honda.tech about upgrading the audio on an 04 Accord EX.
>I have pretty much the same point of view. What did you end up doing? My
>first choice is to replace the speakers, because I am not interested in
>threatening my hearing or rattling the license plate.
>
>Thanks.
>
>John
>St. Louis, MO

John,
Ok, here’re the details. First, let me start by asking if you want to buy an amp. I just put it on eBay last night... here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...=WDVW

That should tell you something about what I ended up doing. Basically, I went though a huge process of dissecting my vehicle to install this amp, then after it was installed, I was plagued by sound problems due to (I think) electrical interference. So I took it out. But let me start from the beginning (actually, this is somewhat out of order)…

The first thing I did was to remove the existing factory speakers and replace them with some JL units, specifically the VR600csi in the front and the VR690cxi in the back. Excellent speakers. I originally wanted some Boston Acoustics speakers, but after an extended side-by-side comparison, I decided that the JL's sounded much better for the money.

There were two major hurdles involved in the speaker replacement. First, the front door factory speakers consist of a speaker cone glued into a plastic frame. This frame then snaps into the door. (See picture “speaker before 1.jpg”) So if you take out the speaker, you’re left with an oval hole with no mounting options for replacement speakers. What I had to do was actually destroy the factory speakers by carefully cutting out the cone and plastic supports, leaving only the outer rim of the plastic frame, which I then used as a spacer/mount for the new speakers. Coincidentally, the new speakers fit perfectly into the plastic rim. From that point I had to drill some holes in the door that matched up with the mounting holes in the speakers, and then used some sheet metal screws of sufficient length to attach the speakers to the door with the plastic rim spacer in between. I also had to carefully drill corresponding holes in the plastic ring itself. (See picture “speaker after 2.jpg”) Sorry I don’t have any more detailed pictures. In the end it all fit nicely, though I admit it’s a hack job.

The second hurdle came while I was trying to run new speaker wire to the front speakers. The passenger side was a piece of cake, but the driver’s side was a bummer. It turns out that the internal wiring for all the door controls don’t simply pass through a hole in the door and into the dash console. They DO on the passenger side, via a rubber sheath. But they DO NOT on the driver’s side. Instead, there is an actual wiring harness connector mounted into the door frame, and the wiring plugs into this connector. I assume Honda did this to make removal of the door simpler for service techs. But what that means to you and I is that there is no place to pass a new speaker wire through. I had to bust out the wiring connector from the door frame, snap off a small piece of it at the bottom to create a hole, and put it back in again. It’s messy because it’s coated in anti-moisture grease, but it can be done. (See picture “driver’s door wiring.jpg)

So the main question of this entire install was: external amp or not? I originally decided yes. So I put a JL 300/4 in the trunk. I wanted to keep the factory head unit for obvious reasons, but there are no line-level outputs on it of course. So I had to use the speaker level outputs. That meant I had to somehow get access to those outputs via the factory wiring harness. Well, you’d think that there would be an aftermarket harness adapter you could use to plug in-line with the factory harness and the radio to “break out” just the speaker outputs, but NAY!! Those bastards. There are similar harnesses available, but I could not find any that actually provided pass-through wiring for all the necessary connections. So I had to cut into the factory harness, and splice the speaker outputs to new wiring, which I ran back to the amp in the trunk. That of course involved the removal of the center console, rear seat, and trunk liner. It was a big job, but on the other hand, I was surprised at how easily this car comes apart. Well within the means of any weekend tinkerer, especially with the factory service manual in hand.

Now we’re at the amp in the trunk. The 300/4 won’t mount on the rear seat back due to the trunk pass-thru. So I built a “backboard” for it out of plywood, which I mounted against the driver’s side back corner. It blocked the tail light access panel somewhat, but that was the least of my worries. I didn’t have much choice. To provide power for the amp, I ran a 4-gauge cable from the battery back to the trunk, via a convenient ľ” hole I discovered in the firewall. If you should try to find this hole yourself, it’s plugged with a grommet, and is located about 8” to the right of the gas pedal, about 3” up from the top of the pedal (looking from the inside of the car towards the front.) I think. You’ll never find it from the inside through, the best thing to do is pop the hood and you’ll easily be able to see the grommet from the engine compartment. Just push it out and stick something through. There’s some liner material you’ll have to push through, but this was the easiest part of the whole install. Then I ran the battery cable down along the center of the vehicle with the speaker wire, and into the trunk. I think this was MAJOR MISTAKE #1.

In the trunk I connected the power to the amp, and the speaker outputs from the radio to the inputs on the amp. Then I ran the amp outputs for the rear speakers directly to the rear speakers right there in the trunk. The outputs for the front speakers had to go up front of course, so ran more new wire, following the path I had taken to get back to the trunk in the first place. Halfway between the amp location and my destination of the front dash, I located the front speaker crossovers under the rear seat cushion. I connected the amp outputs to the crossovers, and then ran the crossover outputs the rest of the way up front to the dash and out to each speaker. The JL 600cxi units are component speakers, with separate tweeters and woofers. I put the tweeters in the factory dash locations, which fit nicely with the addition of about 30 wraps of electrical tape around the perimeter of the unit to make a tight fit in the existing tweeter mounting space.

Well, you get the picture. After I had it all hooked up, I fired it up and calibrated the amp to the proper voltage output levels as recommended by the JL install guide. Then I turned on the radio, and was immediately disappointed. Unfortunately, the factory head unit has a pretty low signal-to-noise ratio and there is significant background noise in the system when no source material is present. This isn’t a big deal without an external amp because it’s low enough that you don’t really notice it. But with an external amp, well duh, it’s amplified! A lot. That was SONIC PROBLEM #1. SONIC PROBLEM #2 was partially caused by MAJOR MISTAKE #1, running the power cable beside the speaker cables. These should have been separated to opposite sides of the vehicle to eliminate electrical interference, but because they were not, I could hear plenty of buzzing and humming, especially when accelerating. And you can’t really drive a car without accelerating now, can you? The other contributing factor to SONIC PROBLEM #2 was that I did not use twisted speaker cable for any of my new wiring. Twisted cable helps to eliminate electrical interference, but I went for the plain old 14ga straight cable due to the expense of twisted. If I’d used twisted, I probably would have been better off.

So in order to fix this debacle I would have to tear out ALL of the speaker wire I had just installed, replace it with twisted wire, and re-route the amp power cable via a different path from the battery to the trunk.

Why didn’t I? Because at the same time I was discovering my problems, I also discovered that I didn’t need an amp anyway! The factory head unit is powerful enough to drive the speakers by itself with no distortion. My first clue to this fact came during the calibration process of the amp. The steps are very clear, and basically direct you to adjust the amp input sensitivity until you get a specific voltage level at the amp outputs. Well, even with the sensitivity at it’s minimum setting, the Honda factory head unit put out enough juice to exceed the recommended voltage output after passing through the amp. Yes I’m sure I was doing it right, and I even called JL to talk with them about it. Basically, the amp wouldn’t be doing anything to assist the radio, but just attenuating the signal and re-amplifing it back up to the same level (attributing to the loud background noise problem.)

So I pulled the amp out, relocated the crossovers to behind the center console, and wired the speakers directly off the head unit. Sounds great.

As a side project, I also installed my iPod in the car. (See picture “ipod.jpg” What a great idea! Now I can carry my entire 600+ cd collection in my sunglasses holder. I followed some of the instructions at these web sites, along with my own ideas:

http://home.pacbell.net/vsim/
http://www.distantcreations.com/accordipod/
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forum...ber=1

In summary, here are a few tips:

1) YOU MUST get a copy of the factory service manual. This book saved me countless hours and prevented likely damage. Even if you’re not going to do anything to your car, get it anyway! It’s an invaluable reference, and although it cost $70, I would pay twice that knowing how helpful it was. You can order it online from http://www.helminc.com. There is also a separate electrical service manual available, and although you probably don’t NEED it, I got it and have used it several times. It’s good for connector diagrams and such, but the standard factory manual has enough basic diagrams to get you through.

2) Don’t bother with Dynamat. As part of this project I put Dynamat extreme on all inner and outer door panels, rear seat floor, and trunk. It was a lot of work and not worth the effort. I only notice a very slight decrease in road noise, although I admit it has given a more solid "feel" to the doors.

3) Try upgrading your speakers FIRST, and then if you feel you need more power to avoid distortion, THEN go for an external amp. Like me, you probably won’t need one unless you use very power-hungry speakers. The Honda head unit does a nice job by itself.

4) If you do decide on an external amp, use twisted speaker wire to extend the output from the radio to the amp and then to the speakers.

5) The JL 300/4 is a terrific amp. I was very impressed with the quality of the unit. I really want to keep it just because it’s so nice!! I wish I had another car to put it in. But I figured it will just sit in the closet, so I’ll have to sell it on e-bay and eat the loss.

6) When removing the door panels, by very careful on the first step. You have to remove the little covers behind the pull handle to expose a pair of screws. Getting these covers off without scratching them is tough, so go slow and gentle and use a mini flat blade screwdriver with 1 layer of electrical tape over the tip.

Well, that’s all for now. I’d be happy to answer any questions you have, and keep me posted with the results of your project.

Ryan

>
>Oh my GAWD! Your experience is more than enough for me to have a pro do the
>installation!
>
>From your experience, there does appear to be a crossover for the tweets.
>Did the rear speaker have a co-axial tweeter or was it naked? Is there an
>amp in the trunk, as someone suggested on the Audio Forum? One diagram I
>have suggests that box is part of the satellite antenna system.
>
>I can't thank you enough for writing all this up. Please consider pasting
>the content of your message onto the Cordclub audio forum. I am sure it
>would be very helpful to many.
>
>I was inclined to upgrade the speakers and see how that sounded and you have
>confirmed that plan. By coincidence, I went out looking for Boston
>Acoustics speakers, but was disappointed with them. Good Alpines sounded
>better, as did medium Rockford Fosgates. I have not auditioned JLs. I
>infer from your choices that they fit OK and that is an important piece of
>news. I listened to Infinity speakers, but I don't like their
>characteristic tone and I don't like the way they handle bass.
> John


John,

I definately don't mean to discourage you from doing this yourself... I'm VERY glad that I did. While it was quite a chore, I learned a lot about my vehicle, gained some good experience, and had fun. Besides, what's the alternative... sitting on the couch watching TV? To heck with that.

Ok, first. Regarding speakers, definately listen to the JLs. Also, note that the JLs are true 6" speakers, which means they fit perfectly and are the same diameter as the original factory speakers. Don't get a 6.5" speaker, becuase it will be too big. Most american cars will take either, but the Honda really needs a true 6" speaker for the best fit with the least amount of headache.

Regarding the crossover question, there is NO factory crossover external to the radio, unless you have the 2-door V6 Manual Accord. On all other Accord models, the tweeters are simply fed the full front-left and front-right outputs from the radio via a splice in the wiring harness further down the line. (See, this is one of those times when the official electrical troubleshooting manual comes in handy.) The new JL speakers I installed DID have a crossover network, so I had to wire that in new.

There is no factory amplifer in the trunk. There is a navigation unit located under the middle of the rear shelf, but that's it.

The factory rear speakers do not have a coaxial tweeer. The JL VR690cxi's that I installed do.

Regarding removal of the rear speaker grills, you just have to "force it", as is the case with a lot of things. It seems like this entire vehicle is held together with clips, and some of them take a lot of force to disconnect. Despite my clumsy hands and legitimate fears, I didn't break a single one in all my adventures. Just pry up the grils carefully. I actually started in the trunk, and used a flat-blade screwdriver to press up on the clips from the bottom. Then the screwdriver slipped and ripped into the cone of the factory 6x9. At that point I knew there was no going back.

The factory tweeters are fastened into place by nothing more than the pressure of a plastic tab in the tweeter grill. The whole thing comes apart very easily, you just have to remove the door pillar trim and then pry up the tweeter grill.

As for a subwoofer, I regard that as totally unnecessary. But as I've said before, that's a reflection of my stereo needs. I don't need to warn bystanders 3/4 mile away that I'm coming like a rumble of thunder. I need to reproduce the delicate strings of Yo Yo Ma, the grinding metal of Slayer, the bass-laiden groove of Medeski, Martin and Wood, the fragile voice of Fiona Apple, and a wide range of other music with as much fidelity as I can afford. And at a volume level that lets me appreciate the hard work of great musical artists, not "show off" to all my "friends" what a great stereo I have. Some people NEED extreme bass and that's fine. If that's you, then a sub obviously won't hurt. But the JL VR690s especially do a very nice job with deep clean bass that's plenty for me.

Ok, I think that answers all of your recent questions. At your suggestion, I'm going to copy this whole thing to the honda-tech forum, let's continue the discussion there for the benefit of a larger audience.

Ryan