b20ricepower

I've been having issues trying to figure out what is wrong with the vtec on my build. I already made sure that the solenoid clicks and that its getting power when it is supposed to at the engaging rpm.I have neptune and disabled vtec speed check, temp check, pressure check, etc in order for it to come on while I rev the motor. The solenoid gets power so that rules out the wiring and ecu.

Now I decided to do the air pressure check on the vtec rocker assembly and I took a video to get some opinions. With about 55psi of air pressure applied via the access bolt removed on the front of the head, I can press down on the middle vtec rockers and they don't seem to be locking. With the rockers on the base of the cam lobe and air pressure applied, the middle rocker moves seperately from the primary and secondary rockers...on all of them. Am I testing this correctly? The motor shouldn't have to turn over in order for them to lock as long as its on the base circle correct? Video below...

[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku0-d91Gs7w[/YouTube]

Chugger

Are you blocking the other hole that will let the air escape

I had the same problem took me forever my solenoid ended up being bad

2fast4u831

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tc2X3sEmIU

b20ricepower

^^Thanks for the video yours clearly locks together. Yea I had the port blocked off. I don't have the tool so I just had a buddy put his finger over it. Vtec is definitely not engaging then. So I guess I will be taking out the cams and inspecting the rocker assembly tmrw. Gonna see if the douche that sold me the head had lost some of the pistons that lock the rockers together.

Chugger

mine wouldnt lock either with compressed air

check your oil pressure at the front of the head

nealnanoHX

I have a full set of B16 rockers and pins if you need parts.

b20ricepower

I took out the cams and checked out the rocker assembly. No pistons were missing at all. The nessecary o-rings were in place as well. I'm kind of clueless why this would be happening. Only thing left I suppose would be that there is a bunch of junk up in the oil passages. I guess its possible because when i first purchased the head I dissasembled it cmpletely and washed it in my parts washer. However, the cylinder head was painted all ricer status and the paint was chipping off due to the strong degreaser. Maybe some paint chips are blocking the oil flow. My oil pressure to the head should be fine. I have a -6an line feeding the cylinder head and my oil pressure at the motor is good.


^^What turned out to be the issue?

b20ricepower

Anyone?? I want my vtakkk yo

kyden

they could all be there, but do they all move? i've seen a few stuck pistons.

b20ricepower

All the pistons in the rockers seem to move smoothly with my finger. And I can even give the head air pressure with the rockers misaligned and the pistons still won't move or pop out at all. I'm lost

b20ricepower

I'm tempted to just ty a new head casting since this one is showing wear on the cam caps anyways. No one has had an issue like this before?

97mm_EH3

Check the screen in the solenoid, oil pressure needs to be 60 lbs. after the solenoid when VTEC is on. You can check at the fitting on the EX. side of the head @ the rear of the head. 20-40 PSI until VTEC then 60 PSI.

hondasdohc

I am recently having this problem with my f20b head but the only thong is that vtec kicks in but then it wants to cut off then come back on and you can feel the loss of power when it does. You should definitely check the solenoid it can click but it can also not work.

b20ricepower

The screen type filters in the solenoid are clean. How could I tell if the solenoid isnt working even though its clicking? That still doesn't explain why air pressure is not activating the rockers

b20ricepower

I also noticed that when I applied air pressure to the head with the cam caps off and the cams out that air was not flowing through all of the oil orifices on the head. There is air flowing out of the 2 orifices by the cam sprocket side of the head, but not out of the orifice under cam cap number 3. I believe that all 3 of those orifices should have oil pressure correct? I have a pic attatched below ofwhat I mean. BTW this is NOT my cylinder head. Just a pic off the web. My cylinder head is still on the car.

nealnanoHX

YEs you are correct they should all have oil pressure. Sounds like you have a block again. Try blasting brake clean in there then blow it out with 100+ psi of air. Oh make sure you have the O ring for the center oil hole, you will have Vtec issues without it.

civicguy

disasamble the vtec selenoid from the top and push the little piston down if goes down using to much force,take it off and sand it with 1500 sand paper,that should fix it,99%of the cars i do with vtec not engaging after doing the procedure u did,end up being this little piston being dirty and the metal getting scratch not allowing it to engage freely(sorry about the writing not really good in english)

Aesthetic Gains

iTrader: (1)

Orly?



The port highlighted in red WILL NOT HAVE AIR PRESSURE when doing the test. The purpose of that hole is to lubricate the cams and cam lobes. People have VTEC issues due to a loss in oil pressure when the o-ring that seals the cam cap is missing.


With that said, you need to do the following to find your problem:

- Put the cams and cam caps back on and apply 60psi at the test port.

-If the rocker don't lock, check for a massive air leak. The most common points that leak are the oil pressure regulators (orifice plugs) that you have highlighted in green.

-Pull the regulators out and inspect them for wear. Also, make sure new o-rings are installed. The one with the step goes in the exhaust side, the one that's flat goes in the intake side. (o-ring part number is 91306-PJ4-000 it's the same for both. They cost $1.50)

-If there is little to no wear, put your finger between the regulators. You can see were the oil travels in the cylinder head from one to the other in the picture. You're checking the head casting for cracks.

-If you still didn't find the air leak. Try using a different VTEC solenoid, as the one you have might be stuck partially open and letting air go back towards the main oil rifle.

-Lastly, take out the rocker arm shafts and inspect them for crack or excessive wear.


Those are the only things that could cause the rockers not to lock.
Any questions let me know.

b20ricepower

I already checked for a huge air leak while I had the cam caps on and didnt really find anything. I did however hear oil bubbling from somewhere in the motor so maybe ill check to see if the solenoid is stuck partially open or sumtin. I also inspected the oil regulators and the orings on them were getting a little old but they arent torn or anything. How big of an air leak is "massive"? I can feel around the rockers with the cams on and i only feel a light stream of air in some spots. I figured it was just the cam caps spray bars spraying some air out of the little holes.

Aesthetic Gains

iTrader: (1)

There should be no air coming out of there at all.

As far as what massive is, well, I think enough air that would cause your finger to move. Probably half of the air pressure at least.

If you are hearing air going into the oil filter/main oil rifle, then the VTEC solenoid might be at fault.

Another thing you can do is take out the VTEC solenoid and the three 8mm allen plugs that seal the rocker shafts and do a visual check for a mechanical obstruction in the shafts. If you can shine a light and see the oil regulators then there is no blockage in the shafts. This doesn't mean they aren't cracked.

What engine block are you using?
B16? B18A? B18C? B20B?

b20ricepower

I could barely feel the air with my fingers. Even after I wet my hand to make it more sensitive I couldn't feel hardly any air escaping anywhere. I removed the vtec solenoid and its housing for inspection. The piston moves freely and nothing is cracked or clogged inside. I also applied air pressure to the little inlet hole of the vtec solenoid to see if it sealed correctly and it does. I then gave it 12v while applying air pressure to it and it instantly lets air flow through. It is NOT the vtec solenoid thats the problem.
One other final thing I tried was to apply air pressure to the head with the whole vtec assembly removed. I had a buddy plug the large rocker shaft hole that was behind the vtec solenoid housing with his thumb. Since that totally takes the vtec solenoid and its housing out of the equation, I felt that would tell me for sure if it was something wrong in the head itself. So with that plugged and air pressure applied air should be pressurizing the rocker shafts directly. And still none of the rockers locked. I'm just to the point where I guess Iwill have to remove the rocker shafts. I hope I can find the problem up inside here somehow.
Whats scaring me is that it seems that they have been removed before. The rocker shaft plugs have what look like some vise grip marks around one of them. Not really bad but enough that I know they've been removed. Taking them out now. Probably won't finish before I work though.

Using a b18a1 block

b20ricepower

I pulled the exhaust side rocker shaft out before I had to go to work. Looks real clean with no gouging or anything obviously wrong with it. I inspectd the rockers and pistons and all the pistons move smoothly....wtf is goin on? I assume that the intake rocker shaft and rockers are the same way but i'll pull them to be sure later tmrw. Perhaps I do have a large leak somewhere in the cylinder head? It seems to hold pressure pretty well though. I also remember seeing the tapped fitting on the mating surface of the head for ls/vtec unless it was done in the wrong spot if thats even possible im not sure. I'm clueless right now

Aesthetic Gains

iTrader: (1)

Try using some mechanics wire or something flexible to clean the actual rocker. The small hole might be plugged with junk and preventing it from letting air move the piston. Can you take pictures of the rocker shafts?

Is the hose that you are using to supply air to the head at least 5/16" ID?

Does your air compressor flow a good amount?

Can you still feel air coming out of the cam spray bars?

b20ricepower

The holes in the rockers are clean no need to clean them out. Im just using a rubber nipple fitting right on the test port. I guess i could try a fitting if i can find one locally. Air compressor is a 5 gallon and seems to keep up with the pressure good. I'll try to take a pic later of the rocker shafts but they look mint anyways. the head is still with the cams and cam caps out of it. I dont wanna reinstall it if its not working as is

b20ricepower

Don't know what to do at this point. Should I pull the head?