solorex

Story: I have a fully built Endyn B20Vtec that I threw a rod in several years ago. The motor made good power: 236whp 155ftlbs torque, this was with a 2.5" collector and 2" exhaust which I know is choking it. The combination of high oil temps and a mis-shift down the straight at a local track, contributed to me throwing a rod. Looks like the ARP2000 rod bolt let go. Bottom end was Eagle Rods, Wiseco pistons. Block was posted.

I am in the process of rebuilding. After reading numerous posts on here, I have seen a lot of people making good power and reliability with stock rods (w/ ARP bolts) and cast pistons. Clearly a lighter rod/piston combo has an advantage, but in an NA application is rod strength really the issue? I'd rather not fork out the extra $$ for premium rods if it's not necessary. Thoughts?

Car is used for occasional track days, autocrosses and hillclimbs, it's used on the street, but definitely not a daily driver.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

Rods are $300.

I'd personally spend the money.

bspeed

The Brian Crower lightweight sportsmans are within 20grams of the Carillo Ultralights at 1/3 the price. A big improvement over the OEM LS/B20 rods.

solorex

Good point, I thought the prices for the Brian Crower rods were per rod (like the carillo's) i.e. $1200, but if they are 1/3 the price that's a good way to go thanks.

dpaqu

How close are the Brian Crower rods to stock weight?

93egSLEEPER

I'm running stock rods and ARP bolts in mine. I told myself the only way I'd go aftermarket rod is if i had forged pistons on them. That was a couple years ago and I didn't want to spend any more money on the build than I had to at the time.

bspeed

-LS/b20 rods are about 500 grams each the BC's are 440 grams and WAAAAY stronger.
-93egSLEEPER good point on forged pistons.
-OP look on the classifieds here, CL, NWP4life FB page. I see dudes selling new in box forged pistons from abandoned builds all the time super cheap.

solorex

Your build is what intrigued me to write the post! I was going to go this route, but seems like I'm changing my mind now and going with a Wiseco piston and aftermarket rod. Anyone know if the Brian Crowers are chinese made? Is that why they are cheaper? Seems like they have a good rep though.

solorex

Thanks for the heads up.. will check it out... I am up in Canada so the exchange rate ain't to favourable these days, so if I can save a bit would be great.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

All $300 rods are Chinese made.

When you buy those cheap H beams, Eagle, Manley, Scat, etc... they're all just Chinese made rods that are finished in house. Some may be finished better than others. But for the most part, it's all the same ****.


As for BC's 'lightweight' rods, I do not know where those are sourced. I can only guess though. I highly doubt they are turning out lightweight forged rods from US materials, with US labor, for less than $75 a rod.

I had a BC rep PM me one day, and swear up and down that their parts were made in house in the good ol' US of A.

I don't buy that for a freaking second, especially considering I know Bruce, and what Bruce had to say about Brian's business when it started.

Personally, I'd run Skunk parts before Brian Crower.

And that's saying something.

solorex

I honestly just want a bottom end that will hold together, and yes it will be seeing rpms, and a lightweight rod can only help with that. This will only be an NA motor ever. Skunk2 over BC? Really? I thought the only thing Skunk2 was good at was cams.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

These are just my opinions, and are to be taken with a grain of salt.

By no means am I the final word on Hondas, feel free to explore second opinions.

Jagtech34

Im running stock rods with arp bolts. Holding up fine at 217hp and 155 tq

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Over 220whp with Stock Rods (shot-peened / hung) using ARP rod bolts on Forged Pistons. Still running, same purpose as the OP, going on 10 years. It'll be fine.

ShinsenTuner

iTrader: (1)

I ran Eagle rods in my setup just because they're cheap insurance. You're still going to spend money having them shot peened and hung and opened for ARP's.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Not nearly as much as you think. Not with a good machine shop. For the car's purpose, it wasn't necessary.. Like I said, almost 10 years running. In the end, it's the assembly itself that matters, as you well know.

dpaqu

stock rods areHP limited or rpm limited? It would be piston weight dependant too right?

Sorry to butt in but this threads topic is relevant to me.

ryanplayjoint

My b20 setup is making 230whp on stock rods w/ arp bolts. *knock on wood* has been good to me. Its been daily driven 2+ years, four different dyno tunes, and appx. 15 quarter mile runs.

Great question! I too would like to know the limits of the arp/stock rod combo. I would like to try race gas but really love the reliability of the current setup.

But, if i was to do it again i would only go forged rod/piston if i was also touching the cylinders css/sleeves. To spend the $ on forged components and have to go back in because of cylinder wall failure would be a kick in the dick.

Also agree on engine assembly being #1 priority to engine longevity stated above

blackeg

I have seen and personally done fi builds with stock ls rods that made 225-250 + (wtq which would pretty much rule out power being a limiting factor on an ls rod all motor build

solorex

Thanks for all the responses. I am still back and forth a bit on what to use, but I totally agree the quality of the machining and assembly is what counts here. The block is at a reputable shop in my area, but I have never used them before. They don't want to use the stock rods, they think I should put an aftermarket rod in there based on my use. I also told them I don't want to use an ACL Race bearing, they are recommending that I at least get a "race" bearing. But is there anything really wrong with a standard Clevite or King bearings? Seems like people have issues with the race bearings and longevity.

dpaqu

Do cylinder walls fail on NA builds? I thought that was a turbo thing.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

There's nothing wrong with OEM bearings, and many people have used them in 600+hp builds to much success.

That being said, I would stay away from Clevite or King's non-race bearings. If you're going to go aftermarket, ACL or King's race bearings would be the way to go.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

Serious question - I'm trying to understand why people would consider running stock rods for any type of build project when better aftermarket parts are so cheap. I can understand if the alternative to stock rods were $2,000 dollar rods or something and that was the cheapest rods you can find but you can get a pretty good rod for $300 bucks.

I just don't understand how people could be on the fence over an option that seems so easy to make. Is $300 dollars that much of a blow to the wallet these days, to me it's funny that in another thread people were giving that one dude such a hard time about pushing the limits on his stock k20 turbo setup. However in this thread encouraging someone to use stock rods instead of spending a little extra cash.

solorex

^^$300 is not a lot...but you guys are lucky to be in the US. All the $300 rods appear to be heavier than stock. The BC lighweight's are $450 US which translates to around $600 CAD +shipping +brokerage etc.. but it's not like I can't spend the money in the end, just trying to make the decision. I guess what people are saying is the chinese made rods are still better than stock.

dpaqu

It's $300 dollars wasted if it's not needed for your build. The only way to know if it's needed is to do it and see if they break. If you don't care to do things cheaply buy the exspensive rods but without testing you don't honestly know that they are better than the stock rods.

Nevermind all that. Google sloppy mechanics. Couple guys have figured out you don't need half the crap everyone thinks you do. It's an paradigm shift. 800hp with a junkyard 4.8L 300k mile engine from a cargo van. gap the rings, reuse everything else, homemade turbo kit, decapped injectors, megasquirt, $300 cam and $300 Chinese turbo and your good for low 9's in a 3k lb car.
​​​​​The engine is now a replaceable part. $300 junkyards everywhere.

Not a Honda but the way those guys share info is to be admired. By pooling knowledge they are all better off and there builds price to performance ratio clearly shows it.