F1HONDA

Monday afternoon I went to Hondata to have them flash my ECU rom.

I now enjoy lighting up in vtec at 5200 rpms and bouncing off the rev limiter at 8900 rpms. They improved the ignition timing to gain a claimed 12-20 wheel hp. I will dyno in a few weeks to see how the new program performs on my type s.

When vtec kicks in now at 5200, it doesn't wail as loudly as it does at 5800rpm, but there is a noticable boost in power at that point. Hondata managed to smooth out the torque curve and provide a nicer low end than stock.

Until I reinforce my head with some help from Toda, I wont be visiting the 8900 rpm limit. On my way home from Hondata, I did find the courage to rev to about 8500/8600. The power begins to drop off around 8200 though, so it's not neccessary that I hit the limiter until I am making more power up top.

The upgrade costs $595. Future upgrades will be available for current customers at a reduced rate....sort of like PC software upgrades. Hondata's intake gasket costs $60 and lowers the temp of the intake plenum enough to gain 3-5 hp, according to Hondata.

I'll be installing the gasket this week/weekend and I can post pics if people want to see. I'll also post dyno results when I get that done.

TsunamiZC

sounds awesome..get that thing dynoed ....

choppystyx

nice..... exactly what parts did u reinforce in the engine??

uNF$@#!

yup, for 600 dollars you too, can have 20 whp just from a little program, and nothing else.

fax me a dyno and i might believe it.

F1HONDA

Haven't made the upgrades yet....still waiting for Toda to ship stuff. Most likely tho when they do ship, I'll spring for (pardon the pun) Ti retainers and valves....but knowing me, most likely I'll get new springs too....among other things.

oldB18EF

according to the website there is only 4 programs, there is not a K20A2-5 program

Daemione

K20A2-5 is the ECU number.

f1nal zeros

Well at the moment Hondata is only doing the type S motor and not the base.

Hondata has took the deep dip of hp from the motor right before vtec would kick in.

Between 55oo and 6ooo the power would drop dramatically. Now power picks up from 52oo all the way to 86oo. This persons rev limit which is set at 89oo rpm's is a one of a kind. Only 2 people have this rev limit set. One was the test car and another was a member from Club RSX.

The Test car dynoed in at 2o3.9 at the wheels. The car had a AEM cai, Hondata,and Hondata gasket and bored TB.
I'll will try and find the dyno sheet on CRSX. But in November I will be getting my ECU flashed. I already got the gasket ordered and now waiting for November when I go down to Cali.

And the Toda parts still have no release date. They have commented on a mid December release but it has since been pushed back. Release date is now a maybe in december. But I am on the list for the parts once they are released. I want to beat the rush so I got the local import shop to reserve me the stuff I needed.

I am now interested to see the full potential of this motor now. All those who doubted it in the begining, I now hope this makes you change your minds.
Keep us updated on the motor bro.

oldB18EF

the ecu numbers are:

PRB A01
PRB A02
PRB A03
PRB A04
PRB A05

not K20A2-5. The programs are listed K20A2-1 thru 4, there is no 5.

hence, this may be a special test program.


[Modified by WR93EG, 10:43 PM 10/16/2002]

dLo GSR-stolen-now-WRX

haha


[Modified by dLo GSR, 7:58 PM 10/16/2002]

rs-sex

HE'S BACK....

GoodKnight

http://www.hondata.com./



So... did anything performance wise to your car yet? No? Oh, but that's a nice front end on your car. All money on show, no money on go, huh?

rs-sex

It would be nice if you actually READ the thread and understood what you were talking about before you decided to respond.

F1HONDA

Actually, the base model is being done as we speak. My girlfriend's car is the test vehicle and they will dyno the finished product tomorrow afternoon. They are also installing the K20A2-5 (8900 limit) program on several cars...mine, the other guy on clubrsx (i am also on that board as ptracy26, so there is one in addition to me) and my two friends on clubrsx are coming down to have Hondata install their ecu upgrades this coming Monday.

F1HONDA

K20A2-5 is the 8900 rev limit program that is limited to a few test vehicles...mine being one of them...Doug from Hondata who performed the upgrade said that's the product # for my upgrade.

Also, as of yesterday, Toda said they plan to release their DC5 internals at the end of this year, and their Fightex coilovers in Feb 03.


[Modified by F1HONDA, 6:42 PM 10/17/2002]

brew-san

I'm not saying the upgrade doesn't do what it says but is it just me or does that dyno look strange?

There aren't any sudden peaks at around 5800 rmp like there should be...


[Modified by brew-san, 6:59 PM 10/17/2002]

rsxtypeslover

Wat up Ptracy....this Lee from Sactown. Long time no hear. Dude! I am planning to come down hopefully Monday as well to get mine my ecu too. Im still waiting for my coilover sets and rims first before i go down. I'll hit you up when I get there...email me give my your number: tripods68@attbi.com

GoodKnight

VTEC engagement is at 5200 rpm, not 5800.

rs-sex

Its not strange at all. They moved the engagement point down and got rid of the flatness on previous curves. We now have a more constant gain instead of a jump at 5800.

brew-san

Fair enough, but why do the stock curves do the same thing then?

F1HONDA

The stock curves represent a jump in torque (thus HP also) at vtec engagement. With the new ecu program, the powerband is smoother than before. The new program actually provides more power in the band just before vtec engages. Imagine the old curve that's more horizontal than vertical just before vtec hits....now it's more angular....which means if you pick an rpm point before vtec before and look at that same rpm now, it's going to show more power. I'm at work and can't exaclty draw a pic to illustrate my point, but I can do that when I get home tonight.

I'm not sure what you mean by the stock curves do the same thing. You mean when you mod (intake, exhaust, etc.) the stock ecu, why does the new curve run higher but hug the stock curves? If that's your question, it's because it's still using the same ecu parameters. This new dyno curve is much different because they changed the way the engine operates, not just how much air it's taking in.

Maybe I'm not making sense. Do you understand what I'm trying to get at?

The upgrade really is worth it. I paid close to $600 for my Comptech exhaust and got like 1hp gain if anything at all. This sucker makes a big difference that doesn't take a dyno to prove...you really can feel it. With the exhaust, I wanted to feel a difference cuz I just spent so much money, but at the dyno I got a good dose of reality.

brew-san

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying.

I don't doubt the upgrade is worth it, but the stock curves as stock curves should have the signature jump at v-tec engagement.. but the curves that are labelled stock in that dyno graph above don't have that jump.. The ones with the programing of course won't for all the reasons you listed but the stock one should still have it shouldn't it?

I'm not knocking the product.. Hell, I'll probably get it in due time.. but I've found it doesn't hurt to approach most things with a bit of skepticism and my skepticism is telling me that those stock curves don't look right..

iNteGraz92

he's just an rsx hater, who cares what he says

F1HONDA

Hmm, looking at the dyno above, I see the typical curves for vtec engagement. Those are the green curves. The torque dips in the 5000s range and the hp hits at 5800. I'm not sure what you are looking for on that graph that isn't there.

As for what I was explaining earlier about the absence of that big vtec "boost" on the stock system...

http://www.geocities.com/norcaldc5/h..._ecu_graph.gif

OK, here's a little graph I made for illustrative purposes only, so don't give me a hard time about the actual numbers not making perfect sense.

What I was getting at (and Doug @ Hondata confirmed to me today) is that if you pick an rpm (5500 on my graph) and look at the stock curve, you'll notice a dip in power as the power curve ends from the primary cams. With the power curve after the Hondata upgrade, at the same rpm notice how there is not a pronounced dip any longer. They have smoothed out the torque curve (which is really the only thing that is measured at a dyno and the only real power your engine makes, since hp is just a derived number from the torque measurement - hp = torque X rpm / 5252 ) so the hp curve is much more linear. Think about it...if torque is flat across the rev range, then the hp derived from that power is going to be more linear.

OK, so you are thinking it's not right to not have that big boost from vtec. Look at it this way....if there is a huge dip before a big power boost, you FEEL it when the power kicks in, right? As opposed to a smooth curve where the power never dips...you wont feel that boost in power cuz the power is always there...no dips...more consistency...so you don't feel that instantaneous boost from stock vtec.

You are actually losing power just before vtec hits on the stock system compared to the hondata upgrade. The 5000-5800 rpm range is where the power from the primary cams starts dropping off, just before vtec kicks in and starts the secondary power curve. The beauty of what Hondata did is really getting rid of that lag or lack of constant power in that 5000-5800 rpm range.


[Modified by F1HONDA, 3:22 AM 10/19/2002]

Rob :190:

so you're showing a graph from the company that makes the product, and you're stating the claims as fact? Damn you aren't the sharpest crayon in the box.