dimsum

I was comparing my ITR with a Nissan SE-R (don't ask me why), and I noticed that our cars use a timing belt, whereas the Nissan uses a timing chain. Does anybody know why Honda uses a timing belt in their cars instead of a timing chain? The advantages of a chain are that you don't need to replace it, and it won't snap. If your timing belt snaps, you pretty much say "bye bye" to your engine, so I would think the extra precaution of a timing chain is worth it. Is it because a belt weighs less? Does the weight make that much of a difference? Is there another reason?

Chris

I think because at the high RPM's that Hondas like to run at, the chain will tend to float.

(heavier, more centrifugal force)

DutchITR1689

A chain makes more noise too, maybe there are more disadvantages.
But Honda is now using chains too, since the S2000...

IN VTEC

iTrader: (3)

Don't think that chains won't stretch and/or break, because it can happen.

stRtypR25

dont the RSX's come with timing chains and not belts?

skafia

Yes, the RSX does have a timing chain along with many new hondas.

Timing chains do not require replacement timing belts do. Timing belts stretch, timing chains do not stretch. But because it is a chain it will tend to not be as accurate as a belt.

TypeR0207

Chains stretch ......... don't believe the hype ..........

Ever have to replace a bicycle's drivetrain?? If you replace just the gears, the chain will slip because it has stretched.

Imagine the wear and tear a chain gets spinning cam gears at 8,000 rpms .........

skafia

I'm sure honda chains are a little bit more advanced then a Mongoose chain

Warren

Car timing chains stretch too. My M3's will have to go at around 110k miles.

Warren

Big Phat R

And they're a PITA most times too.

Votes for ---> "Chains are a wear item that eventually need replacement."

Splat

Wish we could use gears like the V8 boys



Mmm. Gear whine :drool:

RStoR

you tell him Rick!

bike-shop experience 0wnz y00

dimsum

Very few things on a car will last forever, even if it is built by a reputable company like Honda. I understand that a chain will stretch too, and if used enough, eventually break. However, I think it would take a lot more abuse to break a timing chain than a timing belt.

Has the technology in timing chains improved enough that Honda can now trust them in a 9000+ RPM engine (S2000)? Are chains even MORE reliable than they used to be? Are they lighter now?

Does anybody know why Honda has moved to chains for their new engines, while our old Type-R's use belts?

Instg8er

Chains will eventually snap as well. Belts are more common on high-reving engines (Even the Ferrari F355 uses them) and not just to save money. They have been used by honda for years and since the Type R is a continuation on the Integra (a 7 year old design) they probably didn't want to mess with a good thing. Plus then they'd have to do a whole bunch of R&D which takes alot of time and money (especialy when your not developing a new car).

rs

I would think the worse thing about a timing chain compared to a belt would be the wear on the cams. A rubber belt does not wear the cam's "notches." A chain would be more likely wear down the notches and when you put a new chain on it might not fit perfect.

I am thinking like a bike guy since when I put a new chain on my mountain bike I sometimes have to replace my chain rings and a few rear clogs. If the chain and notches does not fit perfect (as the chain streches the notches stretch - they actually sharpen) you get chain skip. I'm sure you have felt this on a bike. I doubt you would get skip in a car since you are not putting the chain under a lot of torque.

Just my 2 cents.


[Modified by rs, 2:27 PM 12/2/2002]

MackSpeed-616

haha, now i know why chris shaves his legs

jond

I think there are probably several reasons.
One of the main reasons is the distance a belt has to cover in a dual overhead cam engine compared to the distance a chain has to do in a single cam V8. The extra distance, some would argue, makes the belt a more reliable choice. When you take a chain that distance, its more likely to slap around and eventually break.

The nissan sentra se-r design is pretty good if I remember right though. I think theres one chain going from the crank to 1 sprocket on a cam, and then that hooks to a second set of sprockets on another chain that turns the second cam. I think the new Ford Cobra engine does it similarly. Another draw back is when you get something like that replaced though. Much more expensive.

nfn15037

Hehe, just throw a Park chain-checker on that

dimsum

I have to agree that a shorter chain would be ideal (i.e., a pushrod V8) rather than the long belt that snakes around our cars. And yes, it probably wasn't worth the engineering effort to design a chain system into an engine platform that was already successful in a number of cars.

Well, according to a friend, a belt system costs less, but I'm not sure whether he means designing the system or building the system. I would assume that a chain system has to be more precisely built, since it would be harder to stretch a chain around a sprocket that is a few tenths too large. Chains also require a tensioner, which adds to the cost of the engine.

He also said that chains require regular maintenance. I assume this means lubricating the chain/gears.

I'm still curious as to what types of advancements Honda has made in chains so that now, they can use a timing chain in a DOHC engine that revs past 9000 RPMs.

Thanks for all the responses.

evil vapor

yes, chains stretch too, but not as bad as belts, they have a longer life and do need replacement, just not as often as belts. When it boils down to racing and having things replaced offten due to wear, it's easier to replace a belt than chain. but whatever, everyone has their pennies to share.

mickey513

Yup, timing chains do not need replacing.

AssPenny

Guess PE will be coming out with a blue chain soon

TypeR0207

Plus, changing a chain on a car vs. changing a timing belt has to be a bitch I would imagine ....... timing belts are pretty easy ........

And yes, bike shop mechanics own!!!!!!! 5 years of doing that is why I even have a clue doing car stuff ........... certainly didn't get the mechanical experience being an architect ........

RStoR

yeah...old habits die hard...especially considering I've been doing it for 16+ yrs.

working a store (part-time & full-time) for the age of 13-26. learned a lot, but i'm still hesitant to open a engine up. gonna try my first one this year.

DutchITR1689

How about this one: Chain + gears!!