nightrider

i have not disabled my airbags and drive around in my sparco sprints. i scoot all the way up and am fairly close to the steering wheel. i tried a search and could not find anything, but what do you guys think about being hurt by an airbag if it were to engage? i am about 2 feet from the steering wheel and i imagine serious damage to my face if the airbag deploys. do you guys think it's safe enough to drive around with airbags disengaged and harnesses? btw, i have a rollbar so i already know the issue about harnesses and no rollbar. TIA

DsITR

dumb question...but

Do you have harnesses as well?

If so, I'm pretty sure the idea of the harness is to restrict movement after impact.. which is why race cars tend to avoid airbags.

Basically, in theory your face shouldnt' be anywhere near the steering wheel when using a harness..

nightrider

as of now i don't have harnesses, but i don't see a need to wear harnesses for daily driving. therefore, i see concern of injury from the airbag if in a collision with the three-point belt. maybe i didn't make that clear, but i don't see how this is a dumb question.

edit: btw, you answered one question by basically saying that harnesses and no airbags would be safe. that may have been the dumb part if that's what you meant, but the main question deals with daily driving with the oem three-point belts.

jdmspoonitr

iTrader: (1)

Technically from an accident point of view the safest thing to have would be five or six point harness and a roll bar.

Using harnesses properly makes the airbag useless since your movement would be so limited that the airbag would hurt you more than help.

But you have to remember that harnesses for the most part are ILLEGAL to wear on the street.

Why you ask? Because they limit your vision when switching lanes and also because they are not lifetime belts. Yes I know that if they are legal for racing they should be legal on the street, but the fact is that you cannot lift your shoulder from the seat to check the rear when the harnesses are properly fastened.

I have no airbags in the car right now and I drive with the normal 3 point seat belt. Also using fixed back recaros and a 4pt. rollbar

DsITR

hrm.. My dumb ? was based on I wasn't sure if I read your entire post correctly.

I think the only other concern you will find is daily driving w/a rollbar and no harness could possibly=wacking your 'ead on the bar in the event of an accident. Because the OE belts allow for much more movement (ie you can actually slant to the side if your roof collapses...)

The airbag issue it seems to me would only be a concern w/perhaps a child passenger IMO.

I can understand your point of sitting very close to where the bag actually deploys, ie it would be deploying in your face and instead of acting as a damper to slow your head down, or the bag ends up pusing against your face during deployment.

Here is my theory (I am no expert.) First I would ask yourself exactly how much closer are you sitting? For example I currently have a corbeau fixed back seat.. Basically where I sit physically is in the same position, however my back is more straight.

Secondly, the force yielded from the acceleration in an accident (will call it negative because you are slowing down.) is going to be somewhat greater than the accel of your airbag deploying in you face. (in theory they should be equal, but the airbag works as sort of a damper over time, reducing the force w/in an interval..... as you have seen in crash dummy test, the head continues through the bag as it deflates over a very small interval of time.) Is your face going to come out unscathed... no. But you are much better off w/a couple of scrapes/burns than a crushed jaw/skull

Another thing to consider is we are creatures of habit.. we tend to seek the same seating position regardless of car, seat, etc.. (I end up adjusting the OE seats in my Lude to the same seating postions as my Corbeaus in the R.)

What I'm getting @is you are probobly sitting in a very similar seating postion as you would have in the OE seats.

Finally, the airbag like much other items on our cars wasn't designed for a specific person w/a specific seating postition etc. It is designed for a wide range of people for a wide range of positions, so unless your new seat is very very different from the OE seat in terms of position you should be fine.

The only other things I would worry about would be after your head bounces off the airbag how does your new seat accomodate for whiplash etc, to support the rear of your head.

I'm sure there are a multitude of other things to consider as well, but this is the extent of my knowledge, and should be considered food for thought.

nightrider

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dumb question...but
Do you have harnesses as well?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i guess you misunderstood my post and i misunderstood yours. i thought you were saying my question was dumb and then proceeded to ask if i had harnesses.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First I would ask yourself exactly how much closer are you sitting? For example I currently have a corbeau fixed back seat.. Basically where I sit physically is in the same position, however my back is more straight. </TD></TR></TABLE>
the sparco sliders that i am using actually slides forward about an extra inch. also, since it is a fixed back, i am sitting upright and that makes me that much closer to the steering wheel.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What I'm getting @is you are probobly sitting in a very similar seating postion as you would have in the OE seats.</TD></TR></TABLE>
actually, i see where you're coming from, but i am sitting no where near the same position as me oe seat. i always sat close in terms of the seat being all the way forward, but my back support was about 2-3 inches reclined. the position i drive now is comfortable, but if i had an adjustable seat, that would definitely not be the position i'd be sitting in.

anyway, i think that i have come to the conclusion that harnesses on the street is not a good idea because my blind spots are bad enough as it is with the rollbar and lower seat position. i will probably just leave the airbag engaged with the 3-point oe belt for the streets.

i have one question regarding my conclusion however. would it be unsafe to drive around the streets with a 3-point oe belt and the airbags disengaged? i mean, i don't imagine my face smacking the steering wheel with my seatbelt on. please comment.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nightrider &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am about 2 feet from the steering wheel and i imagine serious damage to my face if the airbag deploys</TD></TR></TABLE>

Air bags are designed to deploy with the driver 10-12 inches away

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmspoonitr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Using harnesses properly makes the airbag useless since your movement would be so limited that the airbag would hurt you more than help.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is not true. A 5/6 point harness belt will stretch more than an OEM seatbelt, and one of the reasons I do not like airbags with harnesses.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmspoonitr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But you have to remember that harnesses for the most part are ILLEGAL to wear on the street.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is also not always true. Depends where you are.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nightrider &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have one question regarding my conclusion however. would it be unsafe to drive around the streets with a 3-point oe belt and the airbags disengaged? i mean, i don't imagine my face smacking the steering wheel with my seatbelt on. please comment</TD></TR></TABLE>

Possibly. Once you start modifying the safety equipment in the car, it should be an all-or-nothing proposition because it is all designed as a system to work together. Belts, seats, rollbar and no airbags -or- the OEM equipment. Once you start mixing and matching them, you can end up with a bad situation - such as the seat does not allow the OEM seat belt to work properly, and it does not restrain you, and either hte airbag breaks your sternum or you break your lid on the windsheild. Dont think your belts wont stretch that much in an impact....

Stinkycheezmonky

Can the airbags be disengaged for track use? I roll around with my stock seats for daily driving and then throw the Sparcos and harnesses in for track/autox days. Is it just a fuse or something to pull?

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sscguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it just a fuse or something to pull?</TD></TR></TABLE>

They will still deploy.

But taking the airbags out is fairly easy.

magic hat #9

airbags are removed from racecars primarily to keep them from going off when the cars are rubbing during the race. can you imagine your airbag going off when you're in the braking zone after a long straight and you just tapped the car in front of you - ouchers!

MattD@Stoptech

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

They will still deploy.

But taking the airbags out is fairly easy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm pretty sure they will not deploy with the fuse removed....but try it at j00r own risk...

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm pretty sure they will not deploy with the fuse removed....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what Keith Ruppel thought too...

MattD@Stoptech

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thats what Keith Ruppel thought too... </TD></TR></TABLE>

No, they put the fuse back in thinking that as long as the Airbag light is on it won't go off.....AFAIR.

DsITR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That is not true. A 5/6 point harness belt will stretch more than an OEM seatbelt, and one of the reasons I do not like airbags with harnesses.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


You sure you typed that right RJ?

I thought the 5/6pts would restrict movement throughout the "event".

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DsR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought the 5/6pts would restrict movement throughout the "event".</TD></TR></TABLE>

The belts also degrade faster, and need more frequent replacement (current rule is now 2 years).

If you spread the "event" out over a slightly longer period of time, you reduce the g-forces the body sees.

Dave-ROR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The belts also degrade faster, and need more frequent replacement (current rule is now 2 years).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is that for NASA? I thought SCCA was still 5 years? At least for Club Racing?

Not sure since we haven't done anything for 04 yet but I didn't hear that it changed for SCCA CR..

.RJ

SCCA is 2 year as well, per SFI recommendation.

Dammit, there was a really good post on belt stretch a while back... cant find it

Dave-ROR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SCCA is 2 year as well (they changed, then NASA followed).

Dammit, there was a really good post on belt stretch a while back... cant find it</TD></TR></TABLE>

That must be a 2004 GCR change then I assume? I know 03 wasn't like that cause our belts def weren't within 2 years

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave-ROR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That must be a 2004 GCR change then I assume?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, that ***-u-me-ption is correct

Dave-ROR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes, that ***-u-me-ption is correct </TD></TR></TABLE>

luckily we just get the tech stickers from the main tech guy and put them on the car ourselves lol

MattD@Stoptech

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave-ROR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

luckily we just get the tech stickers from the main tech guy and put them on the car ourselves lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

Since we're allready far, far OT, the harness expiration rule only applies to racing, and does NOT apply to HPDE's....although they still have to pass the visual inspection and be mounted correctly for Driver's Ed events.

For NASA.

Dave-ROR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by El Pollo Diablo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Since we're allready far, far OT, the harness expiration rule only applies to racing, and does NOT apply to HPDE's....although they still have to pass the visual inspection and be mounted correctly for Driver's Ed events.

For NASA.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed.

IMO the best HPDE purchase is a nice helmet once you have a bar and harnesses. Even with a neck brace heavy/cheaper helmets give me a headache.

MattD@Stoptech

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dave-ROR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Agreed.

IMO the best HPDE purchase is a nice helmet once you have a bar and harnesses. Even with a neck brace heavy/cheaper helmets give me a headache.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like j00r helmet is on t00 tight...tired neck I could understand from a heavy helmet, but a headache is prolly caused by an ill-fitting one...irregrdless of weight.

Or a loud car...and no earplugs

or dehydration.

or insanity? any voices?

DsITR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you spread the "event" out over a slightly longer period of time, you reduce the g-forces the body sees.</TD></TR></TABLE>

same concept as an airbag right?

in the same light.. the 5/6pt *should* avoid contact w/the wheel, right?

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DsR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in the same light.. the 5/6pt *should* avoid contact w/the wheel, right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Should, yes...