tegguy

I have a 1992 integra with the B16 Obd1 engine and I have the following problem.
1) Car started reved to cold start RPM
2) Immediately died no sputter nothing just like I turned the key off
3) Car will crank but not start
4) When key is turned to the on position all the dash lights come on as they should but they stay on (Cel and ABS)

MFR is activating as it should. I'm lost as to where to start since i've never had the CEL stay on. I have a B18 Teg also OBD1 can I take the ECU out of the B18 and put it in the B16 to see if it's the ecu causing problems?

fcm

You said, "MFR is activating" does that mean you can hear the fuel pump prime the fuel system for a few sec after ign. key is turned on?

Have you checked to see if you have spark? 94

DirtyDA9

Check, www.techauto.tripod.com The main page will help you with that, it explains why your cel would be staying on.

Either ecu, or pgm efi (main relay)

tegguy

I can't hear the pump running but the tank is pressurizing so it must be running. I haven't had a chance to check spark yet because my buddies were busy tonight and I don't have a method to check spark by myself.

Thanks for the link DirtyDA I was leaning towards a bad ECU but I'm going to check the fuse as that page mentions

tegguy

Found the 10 Amp ECU fuse blown. I don't have any spares so I'll have to run to the store tomorrow. Wonder what caused it to blow

DirtyDA9

Not sure. But a faulty main relay will cause the CEL to stay on and the pump to not work. Have a friend turn the key to the on position while you listen through the gas filler tube with the cap off, the pump will prime for 2 secons right after the key is turned to the on position.

Same thing happened to me, CEL on, no pump. I took out the main relay, took it apart and re-soldered the curcuit board, now it works fine. The main relay is located under the dash above the clutch pedal. You will have to remove the bottom part of the dash to get to it.

fcm

There are two (2) fuses directly related to the ECU/ECM, fuse 18 -7.5A, [hot in start only] in under dash fuse box, it also fuses the PGM-FI Main Relay, [start input] the "ECU" fuse is fuse 34 -7.5A (10A CDM) [hot at all times] in engine bay fuse box.

There is also a 3rd fuse related to the ECU/ECM through the PGM-FI Main Relay, fuse 38 - 10A, [also hot at all times] in engine bay fuse box, it is input to the fuel injection relay in the PGM-FI Main Relay, among other things the output of the fuel injection relay goes to the ECU/ECM, [IPG1 and IPG2].

So question is, which fuse is the one that blows?

Also, you should be able to hear the fuel pump priming from the drivers seat of the car. 94

tegguy

The one I found blown was the 10Amp under the hood. I'm about the install a new one and see what happens.

tegguy

Replaced the 10 Amp under the hood and the car still had the CEL light on. FCM do you know where the other two fuses are?

The 10 Amp I replaced didn't blow again the other thing that concerns me is when I replaced the 10 amp and turned the ignition on I got the warm electronics smell not the burning smell but the new/warm electronics smell on the interior of the car.

fcm

Obviously there is nothing new in your 92 Integra so I would also be concerned with any type of "electronics" smell.

The fuse did not blow for no reason, a short or over-loaded circuit caused it and you need to find the problem.

As mentioned in my last post the fuses for the ECU/ECM are fuse 18- 7.5A, [hot during start only] in under dash fuse box.

Fuse 34-7.5A, [hot at all times] in engine bay fuse box, this fuse is a 10A only on Canadian 92 G2s.

Fuse 38-10A, [hot at all times] in engine bay fuse box, this fuse is indirectly connected to the ECU/ECM through the fuel injector relay in the PGM-FI Main Relay, [IPG1 & IPG2 at ECU/ECM, the only two (2) yellow/black leads going to the ECU/ECM, IPG1&2 must have power when ign. switch is on, or engine will not run.

Again, can you hear the fuel pump priming for a few sec. when you turn on the ign. on?

If not, you will need to unplug the PGM-FI Main Relay and test the leads, there are three (3) power leads, [fuses] for the PGM-FI Main Relay

Fuse 18-7.5A, [hot in start only] in under dash fuse box, blue/white lead at relay plug.
Fuse 38- 10A, [hot at all times] in engine bay fuse box, yellow/white at relay plug.
Fuse 24-15A, [hot in run and start] in under dash fuse box, black/yellow at relay.

The outputs of the relay are the two yellow/blacks, the first one is the output from the fuel injector relay, it should be hot as long as ign. key is on, it obviously powers the fuel injectors and as mentioned it is the IPG1&2 inputs to the ECU/ECM it is also power for the heated O2 sensor and IACV, the other yellow/black is fuel pump relay output, [fuel pump power] it is hot only for a few sec. when ign. is turned on.

The other leads at relay plug are the black, [ground] and the green/black, it is the ECU/ECM control lead for the fuel pump relay, it supplies a ground to the fuel pump relays coil.

You will need to get to the PGM-FI Main Relay to drop it and do the tests and repair/replace it if there is a problem with it, these will help...
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelay.html how to get to it.

http://techauto.awardspace.com/mainrelay.html what to look for and how to repair.94

tegguy

I'll check those fuses tomorrow and see. The pump is not priming as I found out today. I've dealt with the MFR in the past with previous integras but from what I recall it doesn't cause the CEL to stay on. I have another teg I can try the MFR out of that one if need be.

Wonder what would have caused a short in a period of a day or two. I've done no work to the car recently so luckily I don't have any steps to back track.

fcm

The CEL will not go out until fuel pressure is up and/or IPG1&2 at ECU/ECM get power, also if IPG1&2 do not get power the ECU/ECM will not trigger the fuel pump relay.

You can try testing for power at the injectors, if there is power there then fuel injector relay is turning on, you can then use a jumper to supply a ground, [from chassis ground] directly to the terminal with the green/black lead in the PGM-FI Main Relay, if fuel pump starts running then the PGM-FI Main Relay is good and the problem is no "signal" from the ECU/ECM to the fuel pump relay, either because it is bad, [a solid CEL is an indicator ECU/ECM is bad] or there is no power to IPG1&2, possible connection problem between injector relay output and the ECU/ECM.

Pull the ECU/ECM and test for power at IPG1&2, [ign. switch on]. 94

DirtyDA9

What about for a 91? My CEL is staying on with a no start. I resoldered the relay and the pump works now, but cel is still on. The ecu blinks though... Please help me.

tegguy

Dirty,

If the ECU is blinking it's showing a code. Count the blinks Long are 10 short are 1 and it wil repeat. See what the code is and that will tell you why it's blinking

fcm

Ditto the above^^^ what code is it blinking?

Have you checked if IPG1 and IPG2 at the ECU/ECM have 12V+ when ign. switch is on?

DirtyDA9

It has only flashed a 6 (ect) but I think that's because I accidentally left it unplugged the day before. And I haven't checked for voltage, I have no idea where my multimeter is, I'll have to try to find it and let you know if I have power.

tegguy

All the fuses are good and still no fuel pump I'm not getting power on the yellow/black wire plug side when disconnected from MFR. I also tested with a good MFR out of my other teg that works. I'm starting to think it's a bad ECU. Can I use an OBD-1 B18 ECU just to test if the engine will start or not or do I have to have the B16 ECU? Also stupid me forgot I have a VAFC in this car and I just realized it's not turning on so it makes me think there is an ecu problem even more.

Also: FCM you are a life saver you've helped me before on G2IC

tegguy

Well the mystery is over pulled the ECU and this is what I found


Now I need a new P28 ECU. I'm worried about what caused it to blow and if I need to worry about the new one

tegguy

Should I look for a P28 or a P30 Ecu for the DOHC B16 OBD1? or I have a spare OBD1 Pr4

fcm

Wow, just wow, that is definatly a problem.

With that said, there should be no power on the yellow/black with the PGM-FI Main Relay unplugged, the yellow/black is the output from the injector relay, the injector relay is turned on by the ign. through yellow/black lead, [hot in run and start], power for the yellow/black is from the yellow/white, through the injector relay.

You may still have a problem if there is no power on the yellow/black when ign. is on and relay is plugged in. 94

tegguy

I had no power out of the ECU at all. I swapped in the PR4 spare I had and my VAFC came on and everything looked good but still not fuel pump. I'm going to swap the MFR out of my other car again tomorrow and see I think the surge might have killed that to.

DirtyDA9

I had power at IPG1 and 2, and with the relay plugged in and unpluged I had power at the black/yellow wires..?? What does that mean when there is power when it's unplugged?

tegguy

So Yellow/White should have 12 volts when the key is on and it's unplugged from the relay?

fcm

Nothing, other then fuse 24-15A is good and the ign. switch works.
It is the yellow/black that can not have power if relay is unplugged. 94

fcm

The yellow/white is a 12V constant, [fuse 38-10A, hot at all times] it is the supply for the injector relay, it makes no diff. if relay is plugged in or not or if ign. switch is on or off, the yellow/white always has power on it, [as long as fuse is good].

You guys have to stop puffing the ganja when your working on your cars, it will not only get you high, it will also confuse the hell out of you. 94