why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ?
09-14-2003, 10:57 PM
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why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ?
im talking about those alcohol burning 5-6sec cars ( funny-cars , or what ever u guys called them )
ive been seeing that u guys agreed that turbo will make more power than supercharger , but why those funny-cars running supercharger ??
thanks
ive been seeing that u guys agreed that turbo will make more power than supercharger , but why those funny-cars running supercharger ??
thanks
09-14-2003, 11:10 PM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (ha illuminato un)
Currently the NHRA rules prohibit using a turbo on the top class cars, I’ve got no real clue why. But with all the fast cars in the class running within a tenth of each other they've got a grasp on the rule thing for sure.
09-14-2003, 11:13 PM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (Day Walker)
In order for a turbocharger to produce the same power as a SC used on TF cars it would have to be a T200(that was a joke) or twin T100's on a V-8. There currently is not a SC on the market that can make an inline motor produce the same amount of power as a turbocharged inline motor setup. You also need to remember that Top Fuel motors are 7+liters (509ci,572ci,608ci,704ci) of rompty romp so obtaining 3000+whp is fairly easy when you couple a tried & true supercharger to the picture. I do believe some of the funny car teams run turbo setups to get 2500+whp.
On a side note: There is a SC'ed 13B rotor powered rail car that runs 7's with ease. I believe the SC is a 10-71 or 12-71 Weind.
On a side note: There is a SC'ed 13B rotor powered rail car that runs 7's with ease. I believe the SC is a 10-71 or 12-71 Weind.
09-14-2003, 11:37 PM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (Dee)
they run s/c cause its INSTANT power.
the s/c cars would prob be half way down the track before the turbos REALLY got going...
thats why some funny cars use s/c and some use nitrous.
another thing, eveyrone knows how those engine slike to explode. and turbos and fins would fly everywhere.
the s/c cars would prob be half way down the track before the turbos REALLY got going...
thats why some funny cars use s/c and some use nitrous.
another thing, eveyrone knows how those engine slike to explode. and turbos and fins would fly everywhere.
09-14-2003, 11:42 PM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (random-strike)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by random-strike »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">they run s/c cause its INSTANT power.
the s/c cars would prob be half way down the track before the turbos REALLY got going...
thats why some funny cars use s/c and some use nitrous.
another thing, eveyrone knows how those engine slike to explode. and turbos and fins would fly everywhere.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Im pretty sure you have no idea what your talking about.
the s/c cars would prob be half way down the track before the turbos REALLY got going...
thats why some funny cars use s/c and some use nitrous.
another thing, eveyrone knows how those engine slike to explode. and turbos and fins would fly everywhere.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Im pretty sure you have no idea what your talking about.
09-14-2003, 11:53 PM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (nevin)
Are you all talking about NHRA Top Fuel and Funny Cars? Im not sure that a turbo would even work in there application. I watch the NHRA races every chance I get and those cars only turn about 500 rpms from the time that they floor it off the line to the traps where they let off that is pretty crazy if you really think about it. They also run somewhere in the 8-?? compression range and about 90% Nitro Methane. So Im not sure if a turbo would even work because of the lag and what not? Those super chargers that they run are instant power. And I have also read and heard that when they floor those cars that so much fuel is dumped into the engine it is comparable to standing in a shower stall with about 7 shower heads spraying you down with water. They make any from 6000-8000 hp from a little over 500ci.
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09-14-2003, 11:57 PM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (nevin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nevin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Im pretty sure you have no idea what your talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL
Im pretty sure you have no idea what your talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL
09-15-2003, 12:23 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (red_sir)
Those car are already WAY PAST THE NEED FOR MORE POWER. They can't hook-up the power they have. Its not a question of which car has more power, its a matter of which car hooks up.
Turbos would only make this worse.
Like puff daddy said, " more money, more problems "
John force says, " more power, more problems "
Guess what owns all the pro-stock records ?? a buick grand national !! V6 turbo, beating the **** outta BB hemis and other 500Ci V8s..
a supra can make 900hp, but can't run 9's b/c it can't hook-up, the top-fuel guys don't want the "supra sytrome".
Turbos would only make this worse.
Like puff daddy said, " more money, more problems "
John force says, " more power, more problems "
Guess what owns all the pro-stock records ?? a buick grand national !! V6 turbo, beating the **** outta BB hemis and other 500Ci V8s..
a supra can make 900hp, but can't run 9's b/c it can't hook-up, the top-fuel guys don't want the "supra sytrome".
09-15-2003, 03:34 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (Day Walker)
I thought they used to run in the 6-7:1 compression range, but it has been a while since I've looked into it. I think it is the instant power thing and perhaps rules as noted above. You could run some sort of quad sequential turbo setup, two smaller to spool and two larger for power, but that goes far away from KISS when there are blowers being made just for that purpose. We aren't talking about 6lb jackson racing supercrap here either.
09-15-2003, 04:00 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (trbob16a)
ok,let's say it took 4 turbos.could you imagine all of the piping that they would have to remove and re-install after each run when they rebuild the engine.not to mention the oil lines and stuff.just doesn't seem as practical to me.
09-15-2003, 05:41 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (turbotypeR)
I guess everyone missed the part about them being outlawed years ago.
and the people thinking they choose superchargers over turbos obviously havent heard of a two step, or the fact that they can stall it off the line to build boost in that case a 2 step isnt required.
also the superchargers that top fuel cars use cannot even be spooled with a stock 350. so whos got lag now?
and the people thinking they choose superchargers over turbos obviously havent heard of a two step, or the fact that they can stall it off the line to build boost in that case a 2 step isnt required.
also the superchargers that top fuel cars use cannot even be spooled with a stock 350. so whos got lag now?
09-15-2003, 06:42 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (Foozball26)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Foozball26 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess everyone missed the part about them being outlawed years ago.
and the people thinking they choose superchargers over turbos obviously havent heard of a two step, or the fact that they can stall it off the line to build boost in that case a 2 step isnt required.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly what he said. NHRA outlaw turbocharge back in the 70'. They used to have turbocharge top-fuel cars, but it's too hard to regulate what everybody running and it's making way too much power. And back then, almost every track event somebody die, so that's why they ban turbocharge. FYI, a top fuel dragster making more than 6000 RWHP, and uses more than 4 galons of nitromethane in a quarter mile.
Another interesting fact was back in the hay-days of F1 racing, a one liter inline four turbocharge engine runing on "rocket fuel" was already capable of 1K HP.
and the people thinking they choose superchargers over turbos obviously havent heard of a two step, or the fact that they can stall it off the line to build boost in that case a 2 step isnt required.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly what he said. NHRA outlaw turbocharge back in the 70'. They used to have turbocharge top-fuel cars, but it's too hard to regulate what everybody running and it's making way too much power. And back then, almost every track event somebody die, so that's why they ban turbocharge. FYI, a top fuel dragster making more than 6000 RWHP, and uses more than 4 galons of nitromethane in a quarter mile.
Another interesting fact was back in the hay-days of F1 racing, a one liter inline four turbocharge engine runing on "rocket fuel" was already capable of 1K HP.
09-15-2003, 06:52 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (PaintStripper)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PaintStripper »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Another interesting fact was back in the hay-days of F1 racing, a one liter inline four turbocharge engine runing on "rocket fuel" was already capable of 1K HP. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Do you know where I can find more info on this? Ive searched and all I have found is that they were running like 70 psi and made 1000 hp from a 1.5 ltr. thats 667 hp per liter eat it b16.
Another interesting fact was back in the hay-days of F1 racing, a one liter inline four turbocharge engine runing on "rocket fuel" was already capable of 1K HP.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Do you know where I can find more info on this? Ive searched and all I have found is that they were running like 70 psi and made 1000 hp from a 1.5 ltr. thats 667 hp per liter eat it b16.
09-15-2003, 06:59 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (nevin)
I also thought the problem was the exhaust temperatures of those things are rediculous - the turbines on the turbo's exhaust wheel would have to be made of unobtainium. Supercharger doesn't have that problem.
For an indication of the temperatures, those flames you see aren't actually all flames from the engine - it's hot enough to cause the water vapour in the air to dissassociate and reburn. It's insane.
For an indication of the temperatures, those flames you see aren't actually all flames from the engine - it's hot enough to cause the water vapour in the air to dissassociate and reburn. It's insane.
I loved the core no matter how cheesy it might have been
09-15-2003, 07:23 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (Foozball26)
Actually the reason Turbo isn't allowed is because I team used one in the 80s and destroyed everyone...outlawing it.
Also, a TF car would spool a turbo instantly...part of the combustion process happens in the exhaust manifold.
Suprdave
Also, a TF car would spool a turbo instantly...part of the combustion process happens in the exhaust manifold.
Suprdave
09-15-2003, 07:30 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (Suprdave)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually the reason Turbo isn't allowed is because I team used one in the 80s and destroyed everyone...outlawing it.
Also, a TF car would spool a turbo instantly...part of the combustion process happens in the exhaust manifold.
Suprdave</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup, and I love how they like to outlaw innovations in racing technology
Also, a TF car would spool a turbo instantly...part of the combustion process happens in the exhaust manifold.
Suprdave</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup, and I love how they like to outlaw innovations in racing technology
09-15-2003, 07:59 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (Foozball26)
Currently the NHRA rules prohibit using a turbo in any of the top fuel classes...
this is the reason.. a Turbo 800ci top fuel car would dominate all, and would not make the class fair for the supercharged cars.. Many NHRA drag racing classes do not allow turbo's for this reason.. it makes it just too easy to make BIG power!!!
this is the reason.. a Turbo 800ci top fuel car would dominate all, and would not make the class fair for the supercharged cars.. Many NHRA drag racing classes do not allow turbo's for this reason.. it makes it just too easy to make BIG power!!!
09-15-2003, 08:10 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (stupid fast 5.0)
You guys are all completely off. Its amazing.
Anyways, All NHRA top fuel classes (FC, TFD) Run 500Ci Dual plug hemi's built by a few companies. Few being Kieth black, BAE, Allen Johnson etc. They use a High helix routes style blower that makes instant boost off the line. I believe it was 35+ psi .02 seconds into the run and increasing during the run. A turbo setup wouldn't work as well because of their drivetrain setup, a 1-1 trans to motor ratio, inwhich they use a clutch to control their traction. There motors make upwards of 5000rwhp, and around the same in torque. Nitro methane is amazing ****, but to get much farther, it seems that there isn't enough spark to ignite all the fuel they're dumping in.
The turbo V6 that was allowed into pro stock was outlawed quickly, but his records have been beat. One of the most impressive turbo car's was Hurly blankenly (sp?)'s turbo small block Fords. He smashed the index quickly with them, and pissed off a lot of Comp guys.
Anyways, All NHRA top fuel classes (FC, TFD) Run 500Ci Dual plug hemi's built by a few companies. Few being Kieth black, BAE, Allen Johnson etc. They use a High helix routes style blower that makes instant boost off the line. I believe it was 35+ psi .02 seconds into the run and increasing during the run. A turbo setup wouldn't work as well because of their drivetrain setup, a 1-1 trans to motor ratio, inwhich they use a clutch to control their traction. There motors make upwards of 5000rwhp, and around the same in torque. Nitro methane is amazing ****, but to get much farther, it seems that there isn't enough spark to ignite all the fuel they're dumping in.
The turbo V6 that was allowed into pro stock was outlawed quickly, but his records have been beat. One of the most impressive turbo car's was Hurly blankenly (sp?)'s turbo small block Fords. He smashed the index quickly with them, and pissed off a lot of Comp guys.
09-15-2003, 08:11 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (Foozball26)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Foozball26 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yup, and I love how they like to outlaw innovations in racing technology
</TD></TR></TABLE>
NHRA isn't in it for innovations, they are in it for the money.
yup, and I love how they like to outlaw innovations in racing technology
</TD></TR></TABLE>
NHRA isn't in it for innovations, they are in it for the money.
09-15-2003, 08:15 AM
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Re: why top fuel cars run supercharger instead turbocharger ? (GraphiteAccord)
Uhm, I like how you wanna tell everyone they are wrong when you aren't right yourself...
Top Fuel doesn't have a 'trans', it's a direct drive V-bar system and the rear end gear is 3.55:1, not 1:1. Top Fuel make wayyyy more than 5000rwhp, more like 8000...5000 is alcohol motor territory. Spark doesn't have much to do with furthering power because once a Nitro motor is firing, it wont stop firing until you cut fuel. Spark plugs are always consumed early in a run and the engine diesels the rest of the pass.
You should prolly do alittle more research before you go telling people they are wrong.
Suprdave
Top Fuel doesn't have a 'trans', it's a direct drive V-bar system and the rear end gear is 3.55:1, not 1:1. Top Fuel make wayyyy more than 5000rwhp, more like 8000...5000 is alcohol motor territory. Spark doesn't have much to do with furthering power because once a Nitro motor is firing, it wont stop firing until you cut fuel. Spark plugs are always consumed early in a run and the engine diesels the rest of the pass.
You should prolly do alittle more research before you go telling people they are wrong.
Suprdave