B6tPoweredMx3

Has anyone used hydrogen peroxide in place of or in conjuction with water or water and methanol?

Since h202 is an oxidizer maybe itll be good for a few extra ponies?
I have no experience with oxiding fuels, so i dont know of the consequences.
Any input?

Tjabo

If I recall, hydrogen peroxide was responsible for blowing up a bunch of fighter plane engines in WWII. They decided to stick with methanol and ethanol. . . . But maybe I'm remembering this wrong. . . .

wilham320

iTrader: (1)

seems like a bad idea to use hydrogen peroxide.... (from wiki.)
Explosive vapors. Above roughly 70% concentrations, hydrogen peroxide can give off vapor that can detonate above 70 °C (158 °F) at normal atmospheric pressure.[citation needed] This can then cause a boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion (BLEVE) of the remaining liquid. Distillation of hydrogen peroxide at normal pressures is thus highly dangerous.

Hazardous reactions. Hydrogen peroxide vapors can form sensitive contact explosives with hydrocarbons such as greases. Hazardous reactions ranging from ignition to explosion have been reported with alcohols, ketones, carboxylic acids (particularly acetic acid), amines and phosphorus.

Spontaneous ignition. Concentrated hydrogen peroxide, if spilled on clothing (or other flammable materials), will preferentially evaporate water until the concentration reaches sufficient strength, at which point the material may spontaneously ignite.

Arcane

Hydrogen Peroxide is a no-no...but you can inject Nitromethane...it'll mix perfectly in a 70/20/10 ratio.

B6tPoweredMx3

I see, looks like ill just stick with water/meth.
Though OTC hydrogen peroxide is only 3% concentrated(97% water), Id like to try it one day at the track. My only concern now is will it have adverse reactions with the meth and water, would it become unstable at any point?
I think im going to experiment.

Tjabo

I haven't really seen evidence/reports of any benefits of running hydrogen peroxide, but certainly some people have run nitrometh and had some small power increases from it. I guess I'm not positive why I would mess with it for the small power increases it provides as sane concentrations, when I can just turn up the boost. Maybe if you had your turbo maxed out, it might be something to try. . .

B6tPoweredMx3

im running a very small turbo atm (ihi vj11), just something that kinda came to mind and i decided to research it a bit.
Once i had seen people had speculated about it but never tried (atleast never shared their experiences )
Basically running the meth kit because i have it, and will eventually upgrade the turbo to the 50 trim i have floating around.

civic-r11

ok.. so i think that i am set on getting the cool mist kit.. The kit will be getting activated by my s300 and turned off so to speak.. But now i am trying to figure out which one should i get... The car is going to be making about 420 on pump.. and that is where the water/meth is going to come in(for my boost).. I was going to want to keep the whole system in my engine bay.. I was going to put the tank where my battery was.. if it can fit.. lol.. does anybody have any pics on any kits in there engine bay.. thanks...

B20luda

What engine/turbo setup you have?

civic-r11

It's a gsr with ls crank, ls eagle rods,, weisco pistons bored to 85mm. Darton mid sleeves.. b16a.. head blox b cams..60-1 turbo with t67 front wheel. Making right now 400.. I am going for 550 or 600..

civic-r11

bump

go hard jersey

ok. i read through some of the pages here and nobody has even brought up that your injecting meth 50/50 into a 4 cyl. the first 2 pistons get meth but the last 2 dont get the same amount. ive read on many a evo forums and almost everyone was a horror story about motors blowing and tons of pics with the heads off an dude the first 2 pistons look new the next 2 have holes in them. lots of the tuners are rejecting the cars with the kits. i believe this is due to placment close to the tb and poor atomization of the shot. I AM CONCERNED AS I HAVE A HIGH HP dd B16 AND WAS TOLD TO GET A KIT.100 octane is not a option. MY 2 QUESTIONS ARE FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE EXPERIANCE WITH high hp meth 50/50 INJ,NOT WELL MABE'S. 1) INSTEAD OF THE NOZZEL NEAR THE TB HOW would it AFFECT THE SITUATION IF THE NOZZEL WAS PLACED RIGHT AFTER THE IC EXIT? im sure this is bad for bov. ADVANTAGES /DISADVANTAGES.AND 2) do you think that direct port meth (shot into each runner of the manni b4 injector) would have the potential to hydro lock? i am sure that this problem is only with 50/50 and not straight methanol....is this worth it as a failsafe for me

runsfromdacops

thought i post up my new #s on 50/50 meth/water and pump gas.
setup is
blox bs
fr ramhorn
84mm gsr
ported head
t67 ho
bal bla bla

on a D.O. progresive kit
made 601/352 @19 psi was within 2-3 degs of the race gas tune. so im vary happy with the kit

Tjabo

Regarding your #1, that is actually one of the most preferred locations, as it gives a lot of time in the induction system for the solution to absorb heat and to vaporize without creating a large chance of puddling in the intercooler.

Direct port should have the potential for better distribution, but then you have four nozzles to worry about, and if one gets jammed, you have REAL problems. A single wideband will only see a fraction of the change.

My last setup wasn't very high HP, but my meth distribution with the nozzle half way between the IC outlet and the TB seemed great, and I got good power out of the motor for what it was. Soon will begin to see what the new motor can do.

Mirage

You are confusing AEM Induction Systems with AEM Performance Electronics, different (but related) companies.

AEM Induction makes intakes & filters, AEM Electronics makes the EMS, the UEGO gauges, the water meth kits, data loggers, sensors, fuel pressure regulators and all the other engine management products. The pump they use is the Aquatec, the progressive controller is their own design as is the injector/check valve assembly. The 1 gallon tank is a flambeau and the 5 gallon tank is a custom AEM design.

AEM's new Injection Monitor with built in logger & failsafe is also probably the best protection unit available for any WMI kit.

http://www.aemelectronics.com/water-...n-monitor-1184

X2BOARD

great discussion in this thread about the many kits and concerns with the water/meth option.

I am going to open a touchy subject but it's a serious query. I have a 11.5:1 CR GSR all motor setup running honda cams used as a weekend runner/autocross bitch. The highest octane gas I have access to is the equivalent of 90 octane in the US and even a mild tune can result in light pinging and rattles (audible from cockpit). I want to use the water/meth system to allow slightly more aggressive timing and cooler IAT's aren't bad either as I am in a hot country. The upside is where I am is easy to get 'fresh' methanol, but costly to buy high octane or race gas.

The n/a systems seem pricey from Aquamist and Coolingmist... in the region of the price of a nitrous kit The car does need to be professionally tuned as it is running my own 'safe tune' right now, but timing will be limited due to the octane available to me as I really just want the performance equivalent of 92/93 (or better) octane.


So my queries...

1) For my purposes, is the price & effort to go water/meth or should I just bite the bullet and buy non leaded higher octane race gas to mix in with pump gas ?

2) Does meth lose it's anti knock values if it is 'stored' in the car for days (ie: car does not drive daily) ?

3) How safe is the 50/50 mix under the heat of a parked car for hours ?

raene

Posting up some results:

My Coolingmist kit (purchased secondhand) with the nozzle shooting at the TB inlet (about 6" away), made 504hp on 94 octane with 50/50 meth mix. Had to pull a ton of timing to achieve those numbers as well. Not very pleased with the results thus far but I have done little testing and I'm unsure of the jet size.

Will update again if I ever get the car running

To the OP above: Don't bother mixing unleaded unless you're mixing large quantities. If you proportionally add a gallon of 112 octane to 9 gallons of 90 octane you're not raising the octane level that much. I think it's valid to say, (octane rating * gallons + octane rating * gallons) / total gallons = resultant octane rating. You'd be about 92.2 octane in that scenario. Leaded fuels will work better for mixing as the lead additive drastically increases knock resistance and I don't think you can use the above simplistic equation to get resultant octane ratings with leaded fuels.

I'm curious about meth storage as well.

You shouldn't have a problem with a meth container in the bay. Just make sure it's a 50/50 meth/water mix. Straight meth would be dangerous.

Tjabo

Answers:
2) Nope. The methanol/water solution will absorb additional water over time since methanol is hygroscopic, so it will make your AFR less rich or more lean as it absorbs water and thus injects less methanol per volume, but that won't significantly diminish the anti-knock qualities of it, since the water is best for that anyway.

3) Very safe. I've run my 70% methanol mixtures all summer under the hood, no problems. After the impromptu flammability tests I did in the driveway though, I can tell you that I'd feel safer with 50/50 mix in there. . .

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

lol can you go into more detail about the flammability tests you conducted?

Tjabo

Man, I get ridiculed plenty without describing that!

Suffice to say that when you get over 50% methanol, it starts catching fire quite easily, and the flames are invisible.... There is a LOT of heat though!

TURKISHFORCE

i have a low price kit like self made.

super fine water fog inject.

way pay more when same efeckt ore result

http://www.aft-shop.de/zerstaeubungs...pkw/index.html




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raene

Post up the effective pressure at the nozzle and a shot of the spray pattern.

Hell, we should all be doing that.

Natural Aspirations

What is everyone thoughts on he best kit for around $400 to use as a liquid intercooler for a JRSC?

ggwac

I have a new AEM HD water methanol kit 5 gallon tank kit.....I was going to put in my integra, but started a new build. its your for $395.00

Natural Aspirations

My new lit literally came today....