zaccers

On a stock LS, they should both be driveable shouldn't they? The 60-1 has a larger 4" inlet, correct? Are there any other differences I should worry about? They're also both a 4-bolt housing so I would assume they would both essentially bolt up?

Anyone with a quick answer to help out? Thanks.

lsvtechatch92

57 trim is limited to about 475whp or so...... it will be quicker spooling....

60-1 can make upper 500s will be a little slower spooling turbo

Both are great turbos im actually selling a 60-1

blackeg

i upgraded from my 57 trim to a 60-1. both were .63 exhaust a/r's . the 60-1 spooled a few hundred rpm slower. as said, the 57 trim really will be at its upper limits in the mid to high 400's, the 60-1 will top out mid 500s efficiently.


im glad i upgraded. i even got a .82 exhaust housing for this coming year on my t3/60-1. looking for around 450 on pump and mid low 500s safely on race gas, both should be attained at right about 20psi

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

On a straight LS, I'd even go 50 trim before the 57, and definately, not the T04S 60-1. Most of the feedback you're getting from the 60-1 are those that are LS-VTEC engines. That head design makes a world of difference on an otherwise unflattering standard 60-1 configuration.

"Bigger" isn't always better. For every straight LS that had a 60-1 on the stock engine, there were several 50 trim and 57 trim turbos that took them out because of the better use of torqueband from a better combination.

If you must use them. 50 trim or 57. DEFINATELY NOT a standard 60-1

lyncoors

Both turbos are out dated with the extended tip and billet wheeled turbos

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

^^ Granted that, but let's stick to what options he does have available. Remember, these inconel turbos have done quite well for almost 20 years. Its ok if not everyone uses a billet wheel.

blackeg

thank you! i cant begin to tell you how many people i have locally that talk all kinds of trash about how if its not a gt series or whatever turbo that they all got convinced into buying by the shop that does their work its useless trash. difficult to handle.

anyway, i did run that 60-1 with the .63 exhaust on a stock ls. ramhorn manifold and 3" downpipe with e-cutout. it was miserable. i had about 3 psi at 4000 rpm and i had my 9-10 that my wastegate was set at right about 5000. only 2400 rpm of full boost.

the 57 trim .63 was full spool in the mid 4000 range. later on i put a .48 exhaust on that 57 trim and threw it on that stock ls. i loved it. granted i never dyno'd that but it didnt feel like it fell off up top, and had 10psi at around 3400 rpms. that was 4000 rpm of full boost, much nicer to drive than with the 60-1. just my $.47 from having too many turbo cars over the years lol

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

It is interesting. Don't get me wrong, I have even developed a couple of billet wheel aero designs, but I designed them for SPECIFIC reasons, and not just to say that it was made of billet. Without the aerodynamic changes that cutting programs are able to make out of the material, billet wheels would simply just be the same compressor wheel made out of something else.

In fact, there are still some design combinations that are still great to use, and relatively easy to replace should something happen over time. There's nothing wrong with taking advantage of them as well. For the run-of-the-mill setup, many times there's no need to run the advanced stuff for simple stock-engine builds.

Lord Helmet

I agree here. I still wonder why some people spend so much money for their daily driver. Not every setup has to be a garrett GT series, standalone management, etc...

HiProfile

The real problem is that people think peak numbers = awsome daily driver.

IIRC it was Jeff Evans who posted 2 dynos showing the same basic kit on an LS and b16 (both stock swaps). The b16 made much better peak HP, but was still slower on the track.


For a stock LS get a 50trim t3/t04e, preferably the version with the stg2 exhaust wheel. You'll still be able to get 400hp from it with decent cams, but you'll have a good 500rpm+ larger powerband. As far as the stock motor is concerned, you'll just run a little more boost to get the same numbers as a 60-1. You could emulate the "pulls to redline" of the 60-1 with a modern EMS's EBC by having controlled boost creep.

zaccers

Thanks for the replies guys. I've had both a 50 trim t04e and the 57 trim.. I liked the 57 a lot better, but it was a newer turbo too (sans coolant lines).

I've just received my .48 a/r t3/60-1, as I plan on eventually going LS/Vtec if I keep the car. It should still be ok for daily driving, and it leaves room for the future. Anything else I should know?

zaccers

Actually.. Have the turbo bolted up to the car now.. just trying to get my hands on a 4" 90* silicone coupler to mount the filter (too close to the driver side fender, needs to point down... any issues here?).

How much more air will this thing flow? I know I need a retune, but it should be ok to drive for a couple days not boosting hard right?

Schister66

For a stock LS, a 60-1 is simply too large to be an option IMO. I would look at the 57 trim, if not something smaller like a 50 trim. If you're looking to make a real street machine, a T3 Super 60 would be my choice. They look ridiculously small, but make crazy torque for stoplight-to-stoplight "spirited driving"

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I have to agree. that was an even worse combination. Now you'll have the backpressure issues with the 60-1 on a stage III exhaust wheel that will hurt responsiveness, and mediocre top end because you limited yourself with that smaller turbine wheel. Because of that BIG T04S cover, your conversion of airflow to pressurized air going into the intercooler will take longer than if you had a smaller compressor cover.

I understand you're thinking. You thought that your "spool up" would help you now with your LS and midrange torque with your LS-VTEC by going to a smaller .48A/R. That is not going to happen unfortunately. But good luck to you on the rest of your build.

Schister66

T3 60-1 .48ar in an S cover is just not something i'd ever put on a stock LS. The thinking behind the choice was correct, but not for this particular combo (as TheShodan mentioned). Don't get too attached to that turbo...i'm sure you'll want to change it soon

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

I have a p trim turbo with a 1.15 ar exhaust housing and a .60 ar compressor side. I just drove it the other night and it didn't lag as bad as I thought 10 pounds just after vtec. My question is if I want to make around 5 to 600 hp in the future should I just keep the huge t4 divided housing? It rarley to never will see the street. the first night I drove it in 9 months I got a ref ticket

zaccers

Thanks guys... Yeah I'll end up using this turbo for a while.. Short on funds!

My question still remains though: how much of a retune will I need? Is it safe to drive on the t3/t04e 57 trim map that's currently in the car? I'm running crome.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Bigger turbo= more air = more fuel required. I wouldn't do it without a retune

welfarepc

hey shodan while you are in here i am curious about your suggestion to use a 50 trim over a 57, for what seems to be spool difference.

is it not true that the 50 trim has a better compressor map with an overall higher output ceiling? i notice the exducer is larger on the 50 trim compared to the 57 and 60 trims.

is the 50 trim just better than a 57 trim in every way shape and form?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The 50, 57, and 60 all use the same 74.56 Exducer. You need to measure from the backwall. That is the reason why they are called "Trims" each of them have a different size inducer. The difference in distance between the inducer and exducer is the "trim". when one has the same size exducer, the larger the distance the more the back part of the compressor wheel is able to allow more airflow to be converted to pressurized air

The 50 trim tends to have a bit better ratio with the exducer for under 3.0 displacement engines that have higher backpressure or lower flowing cylinder heads. non-vtec Hondas, boxer subaru engines, and even DSMs really like this turbocharger over the others for their use. For VTEC engines, the 57 trim seems to take a little more advantage of the midrange that is given with the 57 trim than the 50 trim.

This is beyond the maps at this point. This is more about experience with different platforms and where picking a turbocharger should minimize the engine's weaknesses and take full advantage of its strengths. This is a big case in which bigger doesn't mean better.

jure

Hi guys..

WTB T3/60-1 (A/R .63) for lowest possible price?

Thanks

jure

bump..

Guys, from where are you buying turbos?Looking for cheapest place...?

Thanks..

GEN2 LS

iTrader: (3)

check out the marketplace section on here, the vendors always have good deals on Turbos, I think you can get a T3 60-1 Garrett for like $649.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

99% of them are about $719 not including shipping.649 is under MAP pricing and garrett dealers won't sell for less than that. More importantly, the ones sold all come in the same wrong combination as Schisterr66 and I have stated. It takes a little more to get the right combination.

GEN2 LS

iTrader: (3)

your talking about the stage 3 wheel right? I've seen a few vendors selling them with the stage 5 wheel which has to be better than the stage 3.