hmong337

Looking for a small bump in power but still want an ultra reliable daily driver (like stock). Is completely stock everything okay for like 160'ish whp? A basic T25 setup with the bare essentials.

Is the stock fuel system, ecu, and fuel pump up to the task? As I've searched, the 240cc injectors max at like 180'ish whp?

I'm not looking for anything crazy. In fact, I'm looking for something very minimal. But I still want to retain the great fuel mileage these cars get but with a small bump in power.

Sorry, Honda noob here... And yes, I've searched. But didn't find anything on a "stock everything" setup.

ek_si808

You should do a TDO4 turbo. Real small and should do well.. IMO..

phat00civic

Research my brother as there are a few of us that run D16's on here and while not under boost we still achieve the stock 25-28+ mpg. I run a 15G which does start to spool quickly but have changed my injectors and fuel pump and still get great gas mileage. I do not drive my car daily though so I am hoping one of them will chime in and comment on this. It really comes down to picking the right turbo for the application. In other words you want a turbo to spool at a higher rpm so you are not under boost until higher rpm when you need to accelerate on to a highway. I wouldn't worry about changing those parts out as it is just added insurance. If you run the stock injectors at that 100% duty cycle, if they can handle the 180, they will die rather quickly.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Its al in the tune, peak HP output has nothing to do with the driveability and MPG of the engine, unless you constantly run around in boost all the time then MPG will go down. At first you will then over time you will stop and only boost once in a while. On a completely stock D series 160-200whp is safe and easily obtainable. I tuned a d a few years back with a 57 trim garrett unit. it spooled realy well and made 204.6whp and 207.9wtq on only 7.7psi boost

rclark

stock ecu- No, you need a tuneable platform, such as hondata, neptune, ectune ect.
stock fuel system- No, you will need fuel injectors to remain safe and reliable
stock fuel pump- probably not, due to the higher BFSC of a turbo engine even at 160whp it probably isnt' a good idea to use factory fuel pump. especially when you consider a walboro 255 liter per hour pump is only 80$ and a breeze to install.
start researching from there, and good luck. turbo d's are a blast.

boosted_D

iTrader: (1)

A t25 will do fine, your stock fuel pump will do fine, people run them at 250 whp all day long, get your ecu chipped and have it tuned, the stock injectors will do fine at 160 whp, anything more and they need to be bigger, so yes slap a basic t25 set up on it and have it tuned, it will be very reliable, don't have the ecu chipped and tuned and the motor will blow up gauranteed

hmong337

Conflicting info...

But I think i know what direction everybody is generally point towards. I guess "stock everything" D15/D16's can't do it on boost.

So I guess I'll be needing these... dsm injectors, fuel pump, chip and tune; along with the necessary turbo parts. I still want to retain the 35+mpg hypermiling though. But yes, guess it's all in the tune and how off-boost drivability is tuned.

I was just curious what "stock everything" could do. Nothing safely is what I'm getting. For example, I know on my completely stock gen3 3sgte mr2, it can handle up to 320whp on stock everything. stock ecu, stock fuel pump, stock injectors, etc everything. Was hoping I could get away with it on the Hondas. Guess not.

THANKS!

phat00civic

Your comparing a FI stock car to one that does not have anything related to that when it leave the factory. Why not compare the MR2 vs a GSX? Remember Honda's goal with this car was MPG and longevity, not power.

tron_

Youll need to upgrade the fuel system (injectors, pump). You will need a new ECU with a custom tune on it to make up for the changes in the fueling system you need to make.

SiRCiviC94

I ran my stock 20 year old injectors and pump at over 200whp on a B16 it still was pegged rich plenty of fuel to be had still! its just a precaution

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

You can run stock everything and an FMU but dont expect the engine to last very long. Stock fuel pump wont hang very long either. You could slap in some prelude 330 injectors on stock pump and get about 4-6 psi boost and tune it before the pump cant keep up. but this stuff is so cheap why bother. it really comes down to if you cant afford it then dont do it. Half assing it just leads to alot more money down the road and poor results and no reliability

boosted_D

iTrader: (1)

There are some conflicting info's on this set up, BUT here's my .02 again.
-You need to have the ecu chipped and properly tuned
-The stock fuel pump in my crx supported 250 whp turbo B16a for 2 years no problems, upgrading is just insurance I guess.
- The stock 240cc injectors will Max out at exactly 192 whp at 90% duty cycle with a conservative air/fuel ratio. So if you upgrade them, it's just more insurance I guess, But they will support 160 whp all day long.

hmong337

THANKS! Some REAL info. I would never do 90% duty. 80% is what I would like to call max. But good to know that the 240cc's can take 160whp relatively easy. Was too lazy to calculate it out...

Obviously my turbo car can handle more. But that's not the case I'm trying to make. The point of my thread was to ask if there is any sort of buffer room to comfortably add a tiny turbo kit safely. That's all. 7psi on a small t25 or td04. whatever the internal wastegate is set to.

So the stock ecu will need to be chipped and tuned. Understood. What can the stock fuelpump handle anyways? 160whp?

How about the fuel rail? What kind of limitations are there? What's base fuel pressure set at?

phat00civic

Stop comparing a factory tuned car for FI against a car that is not in that realm.

You could use those turbo's without an issue on 7 PSI

A fuel pump is $150, or less, is it worth asking the question?

Fuel rail is fine for 180whp

kbouchard1092

Lol....this is not right. Not saying that stock injectors cant make 192 whp, but to give such a specific number is just wrong. It will vary from set-up to set-up.

I would def upgrade fuel pump. It would be stupid not too. Its like running 87 octane, you would be stupid to not spend the little extra. Although stock pump may be fine for that level i wouldnt put it up to the added stress. Get a used 255 if youre on that much of a budget, but new there still cheap.

Oem injectors should be fine for youre goals. T25 set-up should be fine too for youre goals of 160whp ish.

You will maintain the same mpg out of boost, if not even pick up some MPG when the tuner tunes out the drivability portion of the tune. You will 100% need a chipped ecu if you want the "reliable" DD you're attempting to build. You can do chrome, ectune, neptune ect. Get what youre tuner is comfortable with. The tune will essentially be what makes this a reliable set-up, not youre power output being lower. Without a good tune you can take the word reliablity right out of youre set-up.

Also stock fuel rail is fine, as well as oem fuel pressure. Fuel should be added thru the tune, not by increases Fuel pressure....keep it around oem or 43psi. not sure oem specs are of d series but around 40psi is fine.

boosted_D

iTrader: (1)

To calculate injectors ability at 90% duty cycle, you take the cc (240) and divide by 5, resulting in 48, then multiply 48 x 4 injectors and you get 192 hp. This is at 90% duty cycle and 43 psi fuel pressure.
Absolutly every set up is a bit different and will vary, but this is a basis as to what the stock 240's can handle, about 190 hp. And there are guys out there making over 200 whp all motor on stock injectors, obviously they dont need as rich of an A/F ratio, but it goes without saying that the stock 240's will support around 190-200 whp all motor, and to feel safe I would say max 170 whp boosted. So that being said, his stock 240's will support 160 whp with enough comfort zone, and a walbro 190 lph or 255 lph is about $90 shipped and yes I would do that upgrade, it's insurance.

hmong337

I think I have all the info I need now.

Fuel pump, small turbo kit, chip and tune with Neptune. I think I've got it all figured out now. Just wanted to map things out before I get the ball rolling. I ended up buying a 95 4door LX w/ d15b7 last night. I hope this side project daily driver will come along nicely.

Thank you everybody from contributing.

phat00civic

A DD and going cheap

boosted_D

iTrader: (1)

you will be fine with that....I think the most you should expect is 150-160 whp on a t25 or td04 at 7 psi, but that is as much as a gsr motor with intake and exhaust, car will be fun. There is nothing wrong with your set up, neptune and a bigger pump is perfect, and why spend the money on huge injectors you dont need???? The stockers will do that power all day long, if you ever decide you want more, or if by some miracle it produces north of 160 whp, then upgrade to dsm 450's or rc 440's. Honestly though the set up your going to do should stay pretty reliable, you start going up around and above 200 whp on a stock d and your asking for a ticking time bomb

Whiterice-gsr

im still not there, every time i fill up im like ok im not gonna boost at all and see what my max mpg is lol ive been saying that for almost 2 years now and have not made it a full tank of gas without boost lol.

Whiterice-gsr

hey op, your in kitchener, me too u need some parts i got adds up on kijiji and i have a set of dsm 450cc injectors all cleaned and flow tested with a resistor box, ready to drop in. they will work mint for you and your power goals with some room to grow.

rclark

You are assuming perfect fuel atomization and combustion. You are also comparing all motor numbers (typically tuned at 13:1 or higher (my all motor RR car is at 13.8:1 AFR) to FI numbers (11.8-12.4:1). So yeah, the math is right but you are leaving out far too many variable. Quality used injectors in the 330-440 range are about 150 bucks. A good fuel pump is about 80 bucks.


If 230$ is going to break the budget on a turbo build that you want to be "ultra reliable" you should just leave the car completely stock.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

I know the feeling but my Teg still gets on average 30 mpg if I romp it a lot it gets about 18-20

Whiterice-gsr

ya this sounds about right for me as well, mind u i burned a tank in about 150km after i got retuned lol. boosted my *** off all the way home and when i got home i drove to my road of choice and ripped up and down through the gears for awhile. my rockers were all black from all the smoking tires lol.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

I feel like that's going to be me when I get my car back. Haven't driven it in almost year and a half.