Tootsie7944

Hey guys. Been a while since I've been on here. So, I just got done restoring my Type R. Pics added for your pleasure. I didn't open the motor at all. Motor has been built for about 7 years and hasn't been opened in about 3-4 years.

Motor build at a high level:
Darton Sleeves 84.5mm bore x 89 mm stroke
ERL MID kit
9:1 Manley Pistons
Manley Rods
Ferrea Competition Plus Valve Train w/ TI retainers & bronze valve guides
LS Crank Micropolished and balanced
Skunk 2 Pro 1 cams
GT35R .82
Full-race stuff, etc

Motor was fully blue-printed and balanced when built.

Story - So I got the car done/restored, and drove it 3 hours to the beach for muscle car weekend. Drove it around over the weekend and hit a couple 2nd gear pulls, nothing crazy. The night before I left, some idiots jumped in front of my car and made me to a burn out. I recognize that also makes me an idiot for actually appeasing them, but I did a quick one anyway and then pulled into my spot. I bounced off the rev limiter a couple times while it was spinning. Total time "burning out" was probably 3-4 seconds. It was not fabulous by any means.

Began driving home the next day. First 20 mins were fine. Then I started noticing a slight knocking sound right around 3,000 rpms. I pulled over to check it out. Couldn't see anything major, and since the sound was minor and I was still 2.5 hours from home, I decided to keep driving. About 15 mins later, the sound/knocking got worse and worse until I knew I had to stop driving the car. The motor didn't seem to have any power loss, but something didn't sound right. Check engine light also came on about this time.

Some other facts while at the beach- cylinder 1 ate a spark plug my first day at the beach (not the first time). There was also a fair amount of carbon build up on the cylinder 1 spark plug. It does seem that that cylinder gets hotter and always has. When we scoped cylinder 1, there was a lot of carbon build up...almost looked like I had a hole in my piston, but I sincerely think it was carbon build up.

I haven't been able to do a leak down test or attempt a compression test b/c my starter randomly isn't working all of a sudden. Battery is good but had been sitting for a couple weeks (attached a jumper, but I wonder if the jumper was weak also), hammered on starter, checked power to starter and there was power. So either the starter literally died while towing the car home or the battery must have just been too weak. We will see.

I have not drained the oil yet but will look for metal when I do. Some of my Type R buddies say if I'm lucky my dizzy rotor may have come loose as it's happened to them on track before and sounded like the motor was blown. I also plan on checking the clutch by hand via removing the bottom plate and seeing if it feels loose at all (I just had installed a new Comp Twin before leaving for the beach). I also want to check the valve lash nuts/locks to make sure they didn't come loose somehow.

Final fact - when I checked the oil level, it was about a quart low. I did add oil and start the motor back up (when I first pulled over on my way home), but the sound didn't go away. The sound was horrible when I re-started the motor, and then quieted down a bit, but still sounded bad.

The knocking sound really sounded like it was coming from the head. I know that doesn't mean much, but that's the best I got right now. With my luck, it probably spun a bearing, just seems weird it got worse and worse as I drove longer.

Any other ideas you guys may have? I'm about 2 hours from where I keep the R, so I'm going to tinker with it some tomorrow night. But I am not about to start pulling the whole motor apart at this point.




<br /><br />

98vtec

drain the oil and pull the oil filter. put some oil in a cup and look for glitter and cut the oil filter open. filter and oil inspections don't lie

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

And if you're still in doubt after visually inspecting the oil and filter then send an oil sample out for analysis.

They give you a breakdown of every component in the oil and will truly tell you the health of your motor. It saved the motor in our Time Attack C6 Z06. Oil analysis came back with a large amount of titanium and unique bearing materials. It's how we knew the thrust bearing died and the #7 &#8 rods were touching causing titanium to be worn away.

Also if you have access to a lighted inspection camera or a spare hundred dollars to buy one (I think Home Depot rents them) then I would pull the plugs and shove the camera down the cylinders. If it's truly detonation and it's sever enough you'll see it on the piston tops, also you should be able to see it on the plugs too. edit: I see you apparently have one, look for signs of detonation.

What do you mean by ate a plug? Like fouled it or the electrode/ceramic failed? If that's the case then at the least you've damaged the turbine wheel. You could also have damaged the valves and valve seats if the valves closed and a piece of the plug was in the right spot.

Also look at fuel, how many miles on the fuel system and the filter? What fuel? Did you stop and get gas shortly before these issues started? Even a small amount of water or other contaminants can cause all sorts of issues. Some stations have even had the transport trucks put the wrong fuel in the wrong storage tank. While that is rare it does happen so you could very well have the wrong fuel. I would check the filter (assuming it's a serviceable type) for signs of debris or water.

Also double check the tune in the ecu, physically connect to it and pull the rom/map out then reflash the ecu with a known good copy from your laptop (assuming you have the capabilities and the tune saved). It's possible that the tune in the ecu became corrupt somehow, especially if you had an electrical problem like your starter acting up. If it drew excess current/voltage it could have momentarily dropped system voltage low enough for the ecu to lose something.

Tootsie7944

Yea I definitely am going to check the oil and inspect for visual signs of metal, just honestly haven't had time yet.

Wantboost - The spark plug was just fouled. Nothing was broken off or missing. Fuel filter and system is all pretty new. I also run 75/25% meth to water via an AEM methanol kit, and I always run Sunoco 93 Octane. But, like you said, maybe the fuel could have been bad. I'll check what I can related to the fuel.

I have the tune on my laptop and the cable. I actually did check that and it all appeared to be fine. Also, not that it means a lot, but the wideband was fine also while cruising home. I will double check though.

I'll look at the oil and filter this weekend if I have time and report back. Worst case at this point, I'll take it to my tuner and pay them to figure it out. I used to love wrenching on this car, but after going through the hell I did restoring it, only to have this happen to me, I've lost a bit of passion!

Out of curiousity, anyone that's dealt with a spun bearing, etc. How much $$ ballpark does it cost to repair? The block build was about $3500 I think when I did it from Justice Race Engineering back in 2008. Other than the block, I have built this car myself and put together the entire head, but I've never built a block and I probably won't start now haha.

98vtec

There is an audible difference between detonation and mechanical knocking. There is also an audible difference between something in the head and something in the block. Notably the time intervals between the noise. Anything in the head will be twice as fast as something in the block. If you did not notice any performance loss, I doubt it's in the head but there is no need to jump to conclusions until the oil is inspected

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

It also depends how long it takes you to notice a bottom end knock and how the engine was being driven when it happened.

Damage can range from a quick micro polish on the crank, new bearings and rings all the way to a new crank (Honda cranks are nitrided and shouldn't be turned), new rods if the caps are damaged, etc. I've never seen a block have to be replaced due to a spun bearing unless the damage causes a rod to get thrown.

wunfstgsr

Check your valve lash, i had a random knocking come out of no where on my type r, i was 95% sure it was the bottom, i checked my valve lash first and most all ex valves were tight somehow.. reset the lash and it was fine. worth a try. And your engine bay makes me jelly! its so clean haha

theYBLEGAL

Ticking can be exhaust leak at the exhaust mani to head gasket most commonly. Make sure you havent cracked your wastegate-to-collector tube as well, the welds there are most fragile. High heat seems to not help. Vibration only exacerbates it. (Mine cracked, and now recracked last week).

Loose exhaust mani bolts give it the 'ford model t' sound, as I describe it

Tootsie7944

Jelly haha that's hilarious. But yea, sucks to have the car looking so good and now have to tear it apart again. I'm hoping to figure out what's wrong sometime in Oct. Will report back.

blackeg

is it more of a clacking sound or a thumping sound? could it be an issue with the old style hydraulic lost motion assemblys?
A few years ago i had an old lma go back it was a sickening clacking sound really bad from 2500-3500 rpm.