welfarepc

Green friction surface? Any details on that? Cool.

bluelights81

Apparently it's a protective coating they started applying in March of this year. Supposedly helps eliminate surface rust and contaminants on the steel prior to installation. They state it comes off as soon as the clutch engages the surface a few times.

bluelights81

Finally got my block back. Looks like they did an amazing job. Spent yesterday checking bearing clearances. This is what I found.

- Journal #1 - 0.014 (Honda wants 0.008-0.018)
- Journal #2 - 0.014 (Honda wants 0.008-0.018)
- Journal #3 - 0.017 (Honda wants 0.010-0.019)
- Journal #4 - 0.016 (Honda wants 0.008-0.018)
- Journal #5 - 0.013 (Honda wants 0.004-0.013)

According to my measurements, I think I'm good. I went with Honda bearings, using the stamp codes on the crank and block from the factory.

All numbers are roughly as I used Plastigage. Any feedback would be appreciated.

The picture below of the Plastigage is of Journal #2, with me interpreting it at roughly 0.014. Anything off with my readings, please speak up as this is first time I've ever used Plastigage or built an engine for that matter!!! haha

Also spent the day cleaning and painting the block along with the alternator, compressor, thermostat housing and associated brackets and installing the ARP head studs. Mocked up water pipe and filter with an adapter I'll be using for the turbo feed line and AEM oil pressure gauge.

Power Steering has also been looped using AN fittings.

bluelights81

I just ordered an AEM Water Temperature gauge, part # 30-5140, which ranges from 100-300 degrees F. I'm using Hondata S300 which states the 00-02 Accord's will NOT having a working temperature gauge, which is the reason I bought the gauge, and to more accurately monitor the temperature. From what I've read, normal operating temperature should be around 170 +/- with the thermostat starting to open, and fully open around 194 +/-. My question is, comparing AEM's gauge to stock, what would dangerously high temps on the stock gauge be equivalent to as far as temperature? In essence, when would you run into overheating issues? 220? 240? As you know, the stock gauge doesn't have temp readings.

Aradin

The stock coolant temp gauges are not a good point of reference at all. By the time they register that the car is overheating the damage has already likely been done. I have a Prosport EVO water temperature gauge in my car and I still have the OE gauge in the cluster hooked up. At ~210 degrees it is still about 1/8" under the halfway mark on the OE gauge. At one point in time I was having headgasket issues and spiking 260 degrees during a pull. I was in disbelief about it because the OE gauge never moved at all. After the Prosport gauge and sender checked out, I realized that the OE gauge was just extremely lazy and inaccurate.


As for temps, I've seen stock cars that run at the local racetrack come back with water temps over 250 degrees, and oil temps over 300 degrees yet manage survive for quite a few races. Anything over 230 degrees sustained and I would worry for the health of the motor. Really, you should invest in a good radiator and utilize the fan controls in S300(if they're available, I know Neptune has them). Stock, the fans will turn on around 210 degrees and turn back off at 200 so the car should never really run hotter than 210 which is a safe operating temperature. The problem I personally had with that was that it kept the oil temps high. Personally, I like to run my car cooler so I have a triple core half size rad, run 70/30 mix with water wetter, and have my fan come on at 190 degrees under 40 mph. The car never gets over 200 degrees in water temp, and oil temps stay about even with it. I have the OEM oil cooler still installed on my H23A so your results may vary. I did notice that the single cams I used to run always liked to run a little warmer and keep heat in them. I hope that helps to answer your question.

bluelights81

You actually provided me with a ton of great information, so thank you, I do appreciate it. I've been researching radiators for awhile and have yet to make a decision. I know Mishimoto makes a pretty good product, and that's the intercooler I went with, however they only make a direct fit for the 5th gen Accord, not the 6th. I've also looked at some half sized ones from GOAUTOWORKS. The choices for a direct fit for the F23 are extremely rare, like none actually, and I'm trying to stay away from Ebay sh*t. I'd like to go with a full size rather than a half, as obviously the more cooling capacity, the better, and my engine is known to create more heat than other Honda engines.

But I'm curious and also skeptical on going half size. If I had reliable feedback from half size in my engine, then I'd clearly go that route, as the reduced space is ideal. My questions would be a half size only includes one fan. This may be a dumb question, but what about the condenser fan? As I'm keeping A/C.

Aradin

You can fit a civic half size radiator in just about anything. I have run the triple core half size I have on various other setups like an 11:1 forged F22 on 25psi around 400whp, stock block f22s on 18-20psi, and now my current H23A on 12psi. I do a lot of different kinds of driving like city, highway, roll racing and backroad corner carving. It performs flawlessly and way better than the OEM in all areas except one. In a situation where you're behind someone at a high speed and they're blocking airflow to the front of your car - a full size will perform better in my experience. When you install a half size, you now have an empty space where the other half of your old radiator was. Air follows the path of least resistance, so you put 2 & 2 together. Civics that come stock with half sizes have a plastic piece that fills the gap and forces air through the radiator instead of the empty hole that would be. I have recreated that with a piece of sheet metal before and some custom brackets. The results were it ran much cooler on the highway but much warmer in the city. When I say much, I mean a difference of about 10 degrees +/-. I opted to remove the sheet metal so it would run cooler in the city but still the car only sees about 195 degrees on the highway tops and that's cruising at about 75mph @ 3500rpm or so. You absolutely want to run a puller fan setup WITH a shroud for whatever way you go. That helps immensely.

As for the condenser fan, you could probably make something work by mounting it directly to the condenser and reuse the OEM fan or purchase a slim fan.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yea I have a custom 7.25" triple plate Fidanza flywheel for my SR20 and the friction inserts get fairly bad surface corrosion when they sit. Granted the first few times the clutch is engaged it all gets wiped away. Just like brake rotors when they get wet or are exposed to humidity.

chrisnick

Any specific reason you're running the 2-wire IACV? Also, it's mounted upside down, but you won't run into the TPS clearance issues that way. I'm also running a Rosko IACV adapter on my F23A1 in my '97 Accord, and the TPS/coolant hose clearance is the only issue I have with it, it's an absolutely beautiful piece. A throttle body spacer or a thicker IACV adapter would solve the issue. As it is, I cut down the lower(?)(I forget, I'd have to go out and look at the car) nipple on the IACV down to allow for proper clearance of the hose running off it.

bluelights81

First person to catch that haha That was just it mocked up. At first glance, I'd thought it'd fit that way, however soon realized before I permanently mounted it that it was upside down. I agreed, the piece is very nice. I actually had clearance issues with the coolant hose barb fitting as well, however I was able to bend it just enough (without crimping it) so it could clear. Now it fits like a gem. I actually thought about a TB spacer, just didn't want to mess with that. And as far as the 2-wire IACV, no specific reason, however I'm using Hondata S300 which doesn't support the 3-wire IACV for 00-02 Accords and requires switching to 2 wire and/or re-wiring. Figured slapping in a 2-wire was the easiest.

Aradin

I use a throttle body spacer with the Rosko Racing adapter. Originally when I installed an F23 manifold to my F22 setup I wasn't comfortable modifying the fittings on the IACV. I was afraid they were going to pull off and cause a big leak. I'm using the same spacer and adapter on my H23A setup currently. A little extra plenum volume never hurt.

bluelights81

Thumbs up on the Rosko Racing adapter. It's funny, when I first tried mocking it up, I was getting all sorts of screwed up. The way you (or I) thinks it wants to go, it doesn't, then the supplied bolts got me confused too, in regards to where they go. Once I figured it out, I love it. May be the best $30 I've spent so far on this project, and with a used IACV for another $30, I'm pretty happy.

Just got my Water Temp gauge in the mail. Speaking of Hondata, when using the S300, they state in a disclaimer that the 00-02 Accords will no longer have a functioning temp gauge. No idea why, but then again, I'm not the one who designed it. Clearly that's huge, so ordered an AEM one. I know AEM is expensive, but considering what I have into this project, mine as well spend the money for good gauges. Like my Dad always said, when you buy something, buy it once, don't buy junk. I have the AEM Analog Wideband Air/Fuel and Water Temp and the digital Boost Gauge. All I need now is the oil pressure and I think I'll be good.

Aradin

AEM makes very nice products. I'm using their wideband and water/methanol kit in my car. Both are great. Top quality stuff. You'll be happy with those gauges and they should last the life of the car.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

AEM doesn't really "make" anything. They license products from companies and relabel them. I can give you a list if you'd like lol (really pissed off the reps at SEMA and PRI)

bluelights81

My head's ready and I will be picking it up this weekend. I'll be installing the bottom end and hopefully get the head on as well. I'm doing my own piston ring gapping, and am just wondering what you guys are doing. Wiseco calls for the following:

Do you guys typically go a bit looser or should I just follow Wiseco's recommendation?

bluelights81

So I spent today gapping my piston rings. Totally f'n up one, by gapping it too big, around 0.028. Ordered another set so I'm not worried about it considering this is my first build.

My question is this. I have a 86.5mm bore and I'm running Wiseco K20 pistons, part #K568M865. According to Wiseco's recommendations for their turbo builds, I should have 0.017 on the top ring and 0.018 on the 2nd ring. When I gapped them, I 'm seeing them a little loose. Not including the one I royally screwed up, I have the following numbers:

Cylinder #1: Top ring, 0.018~, 2nd ring-0.020~
Cylinder #2: Top ring, 0.019~, 2nd ring-0.021~
Cylinder #3: Top ring, 0.017~, 2nd ring-0.018~

All measurements were taken about 2 inches from the top of the cylinder, squared up with a piston. All were property clocked as well according to Wiseco's recommendations.

I left the oil rings alone. Now some have said that they should be a little on the loose side in forced induction. My build's goal is 350-400hp running around 15 lbs of boost.

Thoughts?

Aradin

Shewwwwww. I think I ran .022 top and .023 seconds IIRC on my forged 86mm F22. Those gaps seem kinda tight to me. Bigger bore = bigger gap too, typically. Though I was running Arias pistons and I went with their recommendations. I wonder if there's a difference in ring material between the manufacturers. Anyway, it's much better to be a bit loose than a bit tight when it comes to rings. Too tight will cause ring flutter and other issues which is a problem. A bit loose and you'll have a touch more blowby. Not a big deal.

bluelights81

Thanks man. This is my first build, so I'm being extremely paranoid and want to make sure things are done correct. With the amount of money I have into this, I want to make sure stupid small issues don't create bigger ones. I did a lot of reading today second guessing myself and most say that a few thousands on the loose side is fine. I'd like to get all 4 cylinders the same though, thinking maybe 19 for top and 21/22 on the bottom. I installed everything in the bottom just to see the pistons move up and down while rotating the crank (kind of like a wow moment for me being my first build). But I can easily strip it down again to get the rings better sized. Thanks for your response. I couldn't have done this project without this website.

bluelights81

So after gapping a ring too big and screwing one up, got a replacement set yesterday in the mail. Tweaked the measurements I had before and came out with the following for my final numbers:

#1 - Top Ring 0.019, 2nd Ring 0.022
#2 - Top Ring 0.019, 2nd Ring 0.022
#3 - Top Ring 0.019, 2nd Ring 0.023
#4 - Top Ring 0.019, 2nd Ring 0.022

Also talked to customer service at Wiseco today, who confirmed I'll be more than fine with the numbers above. Can't be too safe I guess, never hurts to double and triple check. Bottom end is done! Just waiting on the camshaft from Bisimoto. They received it last Friday, and typical turnaround is 7-10 days. Hopefully the engine will be back in the car next weekend. Doubt I'll drive it before snow hits up here though :/

bluelights81

So I installed the Kaizenspeed Balance Shaft Delete Kit and was in the process of wrapping things up when I noticed the crank pulley doesn't sit flush with the end of the crank. On the crank is: 1. Timing belt gear, 2. The Kaizenspeed spacer (which substitutes the balance shaft gear); and 3. the crank pulley. As you can see in my pic, there's like just under 1/2" of of the crank pulley that's not on the crank. Is this is a problem? Or is this normal? For the hell of it, I installed things as they would be without the delete kit: 1. Timing belt gear; 2. Balance Shaft gear; 3. Crank pulley and I get the same result. Am I missing something???

bluelights81

Another question I have. I'm not running the stock breather tube/coolant tubes. Can I just connect these two as shown?? Ones in the throttle body and the other comes off the thermostat housing.

Aradin

That's weird. Have you tried tightening the bolt with the pulley on? Could just have some resistance and not be sliding on all the way. About the KS spacer - check the thickness vs the OEM balance shaft gear. The spacer was about half the thickness of my OEM gear when I built my F22. I couldn't run it without completely removing the lower timing cover. I came to the conclusion that it's designed for civics and the like that need additional frame clearance and don't run a lower timing cover. I just ended up using the balance shaft gear so everything fit as it should. Sold the spacer. I actually have a few in my toolbox from other engines I built. I typically don't use them.

Yes. That will work for that side. On the other side you need to connect one of the coolant lines off the IACV to the other nipple on the bottom of the throttle body.

viper_boy403

iTrader: (1)

That's normal. Pretty sure all Hondas do that. If it sat flush with the crank, the bolt wouldnt always be applying pressure against the pulley. Usually you can see where it used to be if you look at a used pulley

bluelights81

My cam got shipped out yesterday from Bisimoto which will pretty much make the engine a wrap. Clutch has also been ordered and should be here in a few days. Spent today mocking everything up and tucking (as best as I can) the factory wiring harness.

bluelights81

Question?? I bought a feed line which came with an oil restrictor as shown in the picture as the one I'm holding. The outlet hole is incredibly small, not much bigger than a push pin. On the right side of the picture, is the brass fitting which came with the turbo. It has an outlet of about 3X as big as the as the other one. It also has some type of mesh screen in it, which you can sort of see in the picture. It's a Turbonetics turbo and the feed line is -4 AN. Which one should I use???