ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
#1
ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
Whats up Fellas,
Long story short, i'm building an engine for boost and have been looking around at machine shops and sleeving companies. I recently contacted ERL to get a quote on Sleeving a block with there "superdeck I" style set up. I explained to them that i have a set of 84MM CP pistons i'm planing to use and would send them with the block so i could have the sleeves Bored and honed to fit the pistons. .....Now i've built engines before and whenever I've bored cylinders to fit over sized pistons its always been done with a Torque plate so the piston wall clearance or cylinder dimensions don't change when torquing down the head. Even in the Instal guide from CP it says "Boring and honing must be done with a torque plate" but ERL told me that a torque plate is not necessary because it is aluminum....
Doesn't quite "click" in my head, so if anyone has used or gone with ERL before give me a shout please if you have any useful info on this subject. I have heard nothing but good stuff about them, but i'm not understanding this no torque plate thing...
thanks gents
Long story short, i'm building an engine for boost and have been looking around at machine shops and sleeving companies. I recently contacted ERL to get a quote on Sleeving a block with there "superdeck I" style set up. I explained to them that i have a set of 84MM CP pistons i'm planing to use and would send them with the block so i could have the sleeves Bored and honed to fit the pistons. .....Now i've built engines before and whenever I've bored cylinders to fit over sized pistons its always been done with a Torque plate so the piston wall clearance or cylinder dimensions don't change when torquing down the head. Even in the Instal guide from CP it says "Boring and honing must be done with a torque plate" but ERL told me that a torque plate is not necessary because it is aluminum....
Doesn't quite "click" in my head, so if anyone has used or gone with ERL before give me a shout please if you have any useful info on this subject. I have heard nothing but good stuff about them, but i'm not understanding this no torque plate thing...
thanks gents
#5
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Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
There is always Bensons machine, got mine done with them. Mine are 83mm though. He tends to have tons of work and I end up waiting a while each time I send something to him. The way I look at it quality takes time. I have seen others on here that like a few other places with no complaints.
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#8
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Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
Golden Eagle warranty information
For Golden Eagle, Lifetime warranty from sinking or cracking. Even to subsequent owners. no HP limit, though I've seen 1000hp on a regular basis .
I've had mine from GE about 10 years hpde & time attack..same block
ERL wasn't lifetime from what I remember, but it was similar
ERL -Benson General information
For Golden Eagle, Lifetime warranty from sinking or cracking. Even to subsequent owners. no HP limit, though I've seen 1000hp on a regular basis .
I've had mine from GE about 10 years hpde & time attack..same block
ERL wasn't lifetime from what I remember, but it was similar
ERL -Benson General information
Last edited by TheShodan; 03-27-2015 at 08:04 PM. Reason: cleaned up linked information.
#9
DO IT ON ALL FOURS
Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
Yeah, .about that... don't go with Benson. He does whatever the hell he feels like doing and thinks he knows better than the piston manufacturer. I had many detailed conversations with the guy before I sent him my block and he still bored it to what he wanted. He was cheaper at $1,200 shipped back, but I would go with Golden Eagle or definitely Darton. CSS is what is over rated, who seriously wants to spend that kind money on stock B20 sleeves? They do say they have done "hundreds" without a single failure though...
#12
Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
I'm not trying to hate on CSS, but to argue that it is a way better solution is completely ridiculous. Also he has 84mm pistons already, if he does in fact have a b20 block then it is only warrantied to 400hp per their website. Another funny thing to notice about the superdeck, is that is uses a very similar cylinder support mechanism for their sleeves, again you are going to argue CSS is better?
I think ERL is right on the torque plate, it's not needed for a B Series with open deck sleeves. I've seen a few machine shops claim that they are necessary and harp about other machine shops not using them, but it's all just to make themselves look better IMO. Once you close the deck with the sleeves, or possibly some of the sleeves that are supported by the main outer structure of the block some have argued for a torque plate, but I would still like to see measurements before and after. I know benson does not torque plate his. Benson, and ERL are one of the few companies I trust sleeving Honda blocks.
I think ERL is right on the torque plate, it's not needed for a B Series with open deck sleeves. I've seen a few machine shops claim that they are necessary and harp about other machine shops not using them, but it's all just to make themselves look better IMO. Once you close the deck with the sleeves, or possibly some of the sleeves that are supported by the main outer structure of the block some have argued for a torque plate, but I would still like to see measurements before and after. I know benson does not torque plate his. Benson, and ERL are one of the few companies I trust sleeving Honda blocks.
Last edited by hybrdthry911; 03-31-2015 at 05:45 AM.
#13
Honda-Tech Member
Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
Whats up Fellas,
Long story short, i'm building an engine for boost and have been looking around at machine shops and sleeving companies. I recently contacted ERL to get a quote on Sleeving a block with there "superdeck I" style set up. I explained to them that i have a set of 84MM CP pistons i'm planing to use and would send them with the block so i could have the sleeves Bored and honed to fit the pistons. .....Now i've built engines before and whenever I've bored cylinders to fit over sized pistons its always been done with a Torque plate so the piston wall clearance or cylinder dimensions don't change when torquing down the head. Even in the Instal guide from CP it says "Boring and honing must be done with a torque plate" but ERL told me that a torque plate is not necessary because it is aluminum....
Doesn't quite "click" in my head, so if anyone has used or gone with ERL before give me a shout please if you have any useful info on this subject. I have heard nothing but good stuff about them, but i'm not understanding this no torque plate thing...
thanks gents
Long story short, i'm building an engine for boost and have been looking around at machine shops and sleeving companies. I recently contacted ERL to get a quote on Sleeving a block with there "superdeck I" style set up. I explained to them that i have a set of 84MM CP pistons i'm planing to use and would send them with the block so i could have the sleeves Bored and honed to fit the pistons. .....Now i've built engines before and whenever I've bored cylinders to fit over sized pistons its always been done with a Torque plate so the piston wall clearance or cylinder dimensions don't change when torquing down the head. Even in the Instal guide from CP it says "Boring and honing must be done with a torque plate" but ERL told me that a torque plate is not necessary because it is aluminum....
Doesn't quite "click" in my head, so if anyone has used or gone with ERL before give me a shout please if you have any useful info on this subject. I have heard nothing but good stuff about them, but i'm not understanding this no torque plate thing...
thanks gents
If you were not going 84mm then I'd say CSS, but the B20 block sucks.
I've always liked ERL work, but never built a car with there sleeves. I know a ton of people running ARFab and Victory with good success.
#14
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#15
Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
Yeah, .about that... don't go with Benson. He does whatever the hell he feels like doing and thinks he knows better than the piston manufacturer. I had many detailed conversations with the guy before I sent him my block and he still bored it to what he wanted. He was cheaper at $1,200 shipped back, but I would go with Golden Eagle or definitely Darton. CSS is what is over rated, who seriously wants to spend that kind money on stock B20 sleeves? They do say they have done "hundreds" without a single failure though...
#16
DO IT ON ALL FOURS
Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
I can confirm that they ship it back WITHOUT insurance. I did not know that as return shipping is included with the price of the sleeving and I guess assumed that insurance was in there. Luckily for me I didn't have any problems with shipment. Sorry to hear about your loss. When you pay Benson directly he just has you put Money Orders in the box along with your information and a short description of what you "think you want done".
#17
Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
I can confirm that they ship it back WITHOUT insurance. I did not know that as return shipping is included with the price of the sleeving and I guess assumed that insurance was in there. Luckily for me I didn't have any problems with shipment. Sorry to hear about your loss. When you pay Benson directly he just has you put Money Orders in the box along with your information and a short description of what you "think you want done".
#20
moderator emeritus
Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
Darton East = AR Fabrication = money well spent. You will pay more than your average machine shop but Howard goes out of his way to do things above and beyond the average and it shows in his customer service and end product. he does all this and keep in mind he is a one man shop.
#22
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Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
Another reason not to go with Benson is: I made a deal with Laskey Racing to get my block sleeved. Mike had me ship my block to Dan Benson in Idaho but I paid Mike in California. Dan Benson took 3 months to complete the work. (I was OK with that) He then shipped my block back without insurance and no signature required via Fed-EX. When my engine failed to show up, I contacted Mike. He forwarded me to Dan. Dan forwarded me to Fed-Ex. Fed-Ex claims they delivered the block to my doorstep. I never received it. I have gotten the runaround from Mike, Dan, and Fed-Ex. Yesterday, 03/30/2015, Mike told me in no uncertain terms that the problem was mine and I should do whatever I felt right. I think it only fair to advise anyone even remotely considering doing business with these men to run as fast and as far away from them as possible.
#23
Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
Emitt, when have I ever given you the run around? I answer your phone calls, answer your emails all in a timely manor like I always have. All of what you said is correct, you sent your block to Bensons for sleeving, he did the work and sent it back. We even have tracking showing it made it back to you 7727 8813 3191 Now I do not live at your house to manage what goes on with it after that but I did my job with you which was offer customer service through the process. I can not speak for Bensons but I speak on our behalf. Like I told you during one of our conversations a police report should be filed if there was a theft. If you need to get a hold of me you know how to contact me and as always will help in any way I can.
#24
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Re: ERL SLEEVED BLOCK??
I am very happy you found your block. "me" as a business man did not ship anything. Benson is the person who did the shipping. I did nothing but take care of you in every way through out the process. No warranty stops a crook from stealing which is the real issue here. Good luck with your build.