Engine Building: Tips and Tricks
04-16-2004, 05:22 PM
#51
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Re: (dasher)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it would overtighten each bolt anywhere between 1-7 ft/lbs depending on the bolt... </TD></TR></TABLE>
What type of torque wrench were you using? I used a Snap On digital torque wrench in my build and have had no problems. I used the following tools and lubes...
Micrometer
Plastiguage
Snap-On Torque wrench
Feeler gauges
Ring compressor
ARP assembly lube
Sta-Lube Engine Assembly Lube with Moly Graphite
SAE 30 wt oil
All tolerances that needed to be checked with a dial bore guage were checked at the machine shop that bored and honed my block. Oh yeah and I just use newspaper when assembling my engine. Clean enough.
Excellent write-up though, very informative.
it would overtighten each bolt anywhere between 1-7 ft/lbs depending on the bolt... </TD></TR></TABLE>
What type of torque wrench were you using? I used a Snap On digital torque wrench in my build and have had no problems. I used the following tools and lubes...
Micrometer
Plastiguage
Snap-On Torque wrench
Feeler gauges
Ring compressor
ARP assembly lube
Sta-Lube Engine Assembly Lube with Moly Graphite
SAE 30 wt oil
All tolerances that needed to be checked with a dial bore guage were checked at the machine shop that bored and honed my block. Oh yeah and I just use newspaper when assembling my engine. Clean enough.
Excellent write-up though, very informative.
04-16-2004, 11:43 PM
#52
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Re: (RyanCivic2000)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What type of torque wrench were you using? I used a Snap On digital torque wrench in my build and have had no problems. I used the following tools and lubes...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
unless you compared the snap-on torque wrench readings with a stretch guage or micrometer ... how would you know if it was torqued down correctly??? Hopefully it was good enough ... but the only way to be sure is to measure the stretch of the bolt ....
What type of torque wrench were you using? I used a Snap On digital torque wrench in my build and have had no problems. I used the following tools and lubes...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
unless you compared the snap-on torque wrench readings with a stretch guage or micrometer ... how would you know if it was torqued down correctly??? Hopefully it was good enough ... but the only way to be sure is to measure the stretch of the bolt ....
04-17-2004, 05:36 AM
#53
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Re: (dasher)
man..i wish i had the time to do all that..between school and work...i dont have enough time to read up and learn and...i dont have the tools yet..do you know anyone that is a good builder in texas?....from bottom up anyway
04-17-2004, 09:52 AM
#54
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Re: (dasher)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
unless you compared the snap-on torque wrench readings with a stretch guage or micrometer ... how would you know if it was torqued down correctly??? Hopefully it was good enough ... but the only way to be sure is to measure the stretch of the bolt ....</TD></TR></TABLE>
1 year running and abused with no problems or bolt failure. If you talk to someone at ARP or Eagle like I have they will tell you that all you need to do is accurately torque them. Being a couple thousandths off in stretch won't make a difference. Do you think that Honda measures the bolt stretch on each and every rod bolt installed in their production cars? I highly doubt it.
unless you compared the snap-on torque wrench readings with a stretch guage or micrometer ... how would you know if it was torqued down correctly??? Hopefully it was good enough ... but the only way to be sure is to measure the stretch of the bolt ....</TD></TR></TABLE>
1 year running and abused with no problems or bolt failure. If you talk to someone at ARP or Eagle like I have they will tell you that all you need to do is accurately torque them. Being a couple thousandths off in stretch won't make a difference. Do you think that Honda measures the bolt stretch on each and every rod bolt installed in their production cars? I highly doubt it.
04-17-2004, 10:06 AM
#55
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Re: (RyanCivic2000)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do you think that Honda measures the bolt stretch on each and every rod bolt installed in their production cars? I highly doubt it.</TD></TR></TABLE>On the other hand, Honda is not trying to make their motors live at 500-900 whp either
Do you think that Honda measures the bolt stretch on each and every rod bolt installed in their production cars? I highly doubt it.</TD></TR></TABLE>On the other hand, Honda is not trying to make their motors live at 500-900 whp either
04-17-2004, 01:27 PM
#56
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Re: (RyanCivic2000)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1 year running and abused with no problems or bolt failure. If you talk to someone at ARP or Eagle like I have they will tell you that all you need to do is accurately torque them. Being a couple thousandths off in stretch won't make a difference. Do you think that Honda measures the bolt stretch on each and every rod bolt installed in their production cars? I highly doubt it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you are only planning on making less then 350 whp and never rev past 8,000 rpm then you could cut corners and most likely will be ok ....
I don't like cutting any corners or taking anymore chances than I need to ... 69 bucks isn't that much in the context of the thousands of dollars in parts, not to mention ones investment in time.....
If money is tight , then what I suggest is to have you and a few friends each buy a part ... one buys a micrometer , one buys the stretch guage, ect... Its not like you will both need them at the same time.... Thats what I did--- over the last few years me and my best friend split the 4 grand we spent in tools to save money...
1 year running and abused with no problems or bolt failure. If you talk to someone at ARP or Eagle like I have they will tell you that all you need to do is accurately torque them. Being a couple thousandths off in stretch won't make a difference. Do you think that Honda measures the bolt stretch on each and every rod bolt installed in their production cars? I highly doubt it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you are only planning on making less then 350 whp and never rev past 8,000 rpm then you could cut corners and most likely will be ok ....
I don't like cutting any corners or taking anymore chances than I need to ... 69 bucks isn't that much in the context of the thousands of dollars in parts, not to mention ones investment in time.....
If money is tight , then what I suggest is to have you and a few friends each buy a part ... one buys a micrometer , one buys the stretch guage, ect... Its not like you will both need them at the same time.... Thats what I did--- over the last few years me and my best friend split the 4 grand we spent in tools to save money...
04-17-2004, 02:22 PM
#57
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Thread Starter
Re:
Ok .. to get back on subject (this thread is supposed to be about discussing tips and tricks on building an engine ... not arguing over what one can "get away with")
It is extremely important for one to completely disassemble their block before handing it over to a machine shop for sleeving, boring, honing, block cleaning, etc. Make sure you carefully keep track of every bolt , nut , and sensor and place them in zip lock bags which you can label. One item which often gets lost or typically fails to get installed is the oil control orifice as shown here being installed.
After Applying liquid gasket or hondabond to items please be careful to install them withing 5-10 minutes after coating item. It is important not to get sidetracked on something else while the gasket sealer drys and hardens.
When installing Head Studs remember to coat the inside of the nut with a little bit of Molly lube. It is easier to use a screwdriver to help guide the nut down on the pre-torqued stud, instead of just dropping it in there.
The Timing belt tensioner pulley should be tightened while the belt is in tension. This can be accomplished as shown with a screwdriver.
It is extremely important for one to completely disassemble their block before handing it over to a machine shop for sleeving, boring, honing, block cleaning, etc. Make sure you carefully keep track of every bolt , nut , and sensor and place them in zip lock bags which you can label. One item which often gets lost or typically fails to get installed is the oil control orifice as shown here being installed.
After Applying liquid gasket or hondabond to items please be careful to install them withing 5-10 minutes after coating item. It is important not to get sidetracked on something else while the gasket sealer drys and hardens.
When installing Head Studs remember to coat the inside of the nut with a little bit of Molly lube. It is easier to use a screwdriver to help guide the nut down on the pre-torqued stud, instead of just dropping it in there.
The Timing belt tensioner pulley should be tightened while the belt is in tension. This can be accomplished as shown with a screwdriver.
05-04-2004, 09:51 AM
#58
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Re: (dasher)
One tip that I would like to add.
On many of the B series vtec engines. After removing the oil galley plug on the timing belt side of the block I have noticed that the plug actually covers up about 1/3 of the #1 main bearing feed hole. I like to grind down the back of the plug to make sure that there is no oil starvation for that bearing.
Also another tip. You want to use a non-detergent straight 30 wt oil for initial engine break in. It allows the rings to seat easier.
I have lots of tips, but don't have all day to sit here and tell you guys about them. Plus I like to consider some as my own trade secrets as well.
..............back to assembling my personal engine
On many of the B series vtec engines. After removing the oil galley plug on the timing belt side of the block I have noticed that the plug actually covers up about 1/3 of the #1 main bearing feed hole. I like to grind down the back of the plug to make sure that there is no oil starvation for that bearing.
Also another tip. You want to use a non-detergent straight 30 wt oil for initial engine break in. It allows the rings to seat easier.
I have lots of tips, but don't have all day to sit here and tell you guys about them. Plus I like to consider some as my own trade secrets as well.
..............back to assembling my personal engine
05-04-2004, 12:27 PM
#59
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Re: Re: (93LSivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93LSivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You want to use a non-detergent straight 30 wt oil for initial engine break in. It allows the rings to seat easier.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Detergant oil keeps dirt and debris in suspension, not something you want in a brand new engine.
Detergant oil keeps dirt and debris in suspension, not something you want in a brand new engine.
05-10-2004, 03:04 PM
#60
Re: Re: (RyanCivic2000)
i had a hard time finding non-detergent oil. well one small shop had a valvoline 30w but they were out. does it say non-detergent clearly on the label?
if you don't use a stretch gauge for the rod bolts, is it ok to just torque, loosen, then retorque, and possibly a 3rd time? i saw that some builders do this on initial install, then i see some people worrying about reinstalling them a 2nd or 3rd time.
if you don't use a stretch gauge for the rod bolts, is it ok to just torque, loosen, then retorque, and possibly a 3rd time? i saw that some builders do this on initial install, then i see some people worrying about reinstalling them a 2nd or 3rd time.
05-10-2004, 05:14 PM
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Re: Re: (XDEep)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XDEep »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had a hard time finding non-detergent oil. well one small shop had a valvoline 30w but they were out. does it say non-detergent clearly on the label?
if you don't use a stretch gauge for the rod bolts, is it ok to just torque, loosen, then retorque, and possibly a 3rd time? i saw that some builders do this on initial install, then i see some people worrying about reinstalling them a 2nd or 3rd time.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can get non-detergant oil pretty much anywhere. It might just say ND on the front of it.
DO NOT loosen and then retorque the rod bolts. Only torque them once.
if you don't use a stretch gauge for the rod bolts, is it ok to just torque, loosen, then retorque, and possibly a 3rd time? i saw that some builders do this on initial install, then i see some people worrying about reinstalling them a 2nd or 3rd time.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can get non-detergant oil pretty much anywhere. It might just say ND on the front of it.
DO NOT loosen and then retorque the rod bolts. Only torque them once.
05-10-2004, 05:21 PM
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Re: (RyanCivic2000)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1 year running and abused with no problems or bolt failure. If you talk to someone at ARP or Eagle like I have they will tell you that all you need to do is accurately torque them. Being a couple thousandths off in stretch won't make a difference. Do you think that Honda measures the bolt stretch on each and every rod bolt installed in their production cars? I highly doubt it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, yes yes they do. It's automated of course, but it's still done.
1 year running and abused with no problems or bolt failure. If you talk to someone at ARP or Eagle like I have they will tell you that all you need to do is accurately torque them. Being a couple thousandths off in stretch won't make a difference. Do you think that Honda measures the bolt stretch on each and every rod bolt installed in their production cars? I highly doubt it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, yes yes they do. It's automated of course, but it's still done.
05-10-2004, 05:23 PM
#64
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Re: Re: (MordecaiPSI)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MordecaiPSI »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">someone needs to do this with a H series.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the next engine I'm building is actually going to be an h22a ... i'll take pictures and document the process..
the next engine I'm building is actually going to be an h22a ... i'll take pictures and document the process..
05-10-2004, 06:53 PM
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Re: Re: (dasher)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the next engine I'm building is actually going to be an h22a ... i'll take pictures and document the process..</TD></TR></TABLE>
nice
the next engine I'm building is actually going to be an h22a ... i'll take pictures and document the process..</TD></TR></TABLE>
nice
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