Rain_man

I'm thinking about taking this class b/c I need to tune my setup and I figure why not spend the money on the class instead of paying a tuner to do it.

My question is, for those of you who have taken the class, do you feel the class teaches enough that someone who takes it could tune their car afterwards? Not just how to tune for max power, but also for things that matter in everyday driveability.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm a student and it would suck to spend 400 dollars and still not be able to tune my car to where I want it to be.

Rain_man

anybody?

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

You won't come out of the class a master tuner, that will come w/ experience.. For me, before I had taken the class, I had already tuned my car w/ hondata. I was successful in that but after Ive taken the class I look back on how blind I really was.. The class really lays down an awesome foundation for you.. It doesn't tell you what to do, but it gives you everything you need so that you can figure it out.

Also, I was at the first seminar here in dallas last year, and I just went back 2 weeks ago for a 2nd visit.. I think I learned twice as much the 2nd time as I did the first time. and id take it a 3rd if I could haha.. There is just so much good stuff and Ben continues to improve on the class everytime.

*Boostwerks*

Taking the class here in Denver tomarrow!

WOOT.

blueturbo4door

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bryson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Taking the class here in Denver tomarrow!

WOOT. </TD></TR></TABLE>

me too!

lugnuts

yeah go ahead and check it out, max power is part of the discussion but driveability is just as important and covered also. Most of the seminars covers the theories on what and why you will be tuning.

Endless

I attended Ben's first seminar at Jotech last year. Some of the best money I ever spent. I got to meet Kenny Tran, Tony Palo, Bob Norwood, and Earl Laskey, along with a bunch of cool H-T'ers. The whole seminar was very informative and laid out well. True, I didn't leave there a tuning genius, but I had a much better grasp on the concepts of tuning. Ben explains things very well and cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had about stuff. If you're serious about your car, you'll take this seminar. to Ben and EFI University.

Plus, we got to see this:




Modified by Endless at 2:35 PM 6/5/2004

FredoSP

aahhhh the famous Hooters story

*Boostwerks*

Welp...The class was AWSOME. Ben did an awsome job.

I never heard of an explination of the air/fuel ratio like Ben explained...simply amazing.

Definetly worth every penny :thumbsup:

Arturbo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bryson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Welp...The class was AWSOME. Ben did an awsome job.

I never heard of an explination of the air/fuel ratio like Ben explained...simply amazing.

Definetly worth every penny :thumbsup:</TD></TR></TABLE>
Tell them to call me!!

glad you liked it..

art

*Boostwerks*

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Tell them to call me!!

glad you liked it..

art</TD></TR></TABLE>

Will do.

I have the Dyno session tommarow...

So glad you refered me Art! I don't think I would have shelled out the $ for this if it wasn't for you...

Arturbo

What car is going to be dyno'd?

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kpt4321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I heard it was the ratio of air to fuel, by mass.

Ben *is* amazing, I suppose....


</TD></TR></TABLE>

have you taken the class?

kpt4321

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

have you taken the class?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope

The class itself seems pretty good, especially for a beginner. I can't swing that kind of money without knowing exactly what I am getting into, but as I said, for a beginner it is certainly a lot more applicable.

I'm just sad there isn't a bigger market for this sort of thing. I'd love to see more than one company start doing this...

Maybe I should start one.

kpt4321

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Having perused the 101 syllabus, I think it's a waste of $400 for somebody who is self motivated, solid mathematical ability, has strong problem solving skills, and a background in cars. A simple physics text, ICE in Theory and Practice volumes 1 & 2 by Taylor, and mucking about with one of the freeware tuner apps out there pretty much covers the class and then some.</TD></TR></TABLE>

&lt;claps&gt;

Well said.

You also went on to make the very good point that some people are not as good at self-teaching as others, which is what makes that class valuble in the world.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where I am at in the hierarchy of things is needing the invaluable hands on tips and tricks you can learn from the advanced class. That is the invaluable knowledge that a text book can't teach you, regardless of your learning curve. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you can't get them out of a book, why do you think that the same person who may have written that type of book can teach them to you in a class?

I think you're past the level of 101 anything, J.

Maybe "appealing to the ladies 101."

Rob Dizzle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Having perused the 101 syllabus, I think it's a waste of $400 for somebody who is self motivated, solid mathematical ability, has strong problem solving skills, and a background in cars. A simple physics text, ICE in Theory and Practice volumes 1 & 2 by Taylor, and mucking about with one of the freeware tuner apps out there pretty much covers the class and then some. </TD></TR></TABLE>
this just goes to show, that there isnt a golden product or service that fits everyones needs.
seems to me that efi is pretty broad in the sense that is has worked for alot of people, but there are some people that learn their own way.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Where I am at in the hierarchy of things is needing the invaluable hands on tips and tricks you can learn from the advanced class. That is the invaluable knowledge that a text book can't teach you, regardless of your learning curve. </TD></TR></TABLE>
good point, because being able to talk with ben and other good tuners like earl or tony1 at the classes is very helpful i imagine. if learning was a matter of reading a text book, then we wouldnt have as many schools out there.

h22 civic

took class def good learning instructor

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kpt4321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Nope, and I am not making fun of the quality of the class as a whole. I am most certainly making fun of the fact that he is "amazing" because of the way he explained A/F ratio.

Unless he and another couple of volunteers put on big molecule suits and did a little combustion jig, I'm pretty sure he didn't explain A/F ratio in a way deserving of the "amazing" title.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think its really funny when people think they are too good for this class. Everyone who attends this class learns something, even if your a highly qualified tuner like Tony1, even he learned some stuff. As for the a/f ratio explanation I guess you have to take the class to hear what he says, cause that is not in the sylubus.

Jared

Is there an online schedule for this class?

Boltz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think its really funny when people think they are too good for this class. Everyone who attends this class learns something, even if your a highly qualified tuner like Tony1, even he learned some stuff. As for the a/f ratio explanation I guess you have to take the class to hear what he says, cause that is not in the sylubus.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I agree, Ben is extrememly smart. He also has way more experience tuning than anyone else I've ever talked to. Just reading the EFI-101 book isnt going to give you the full experience of what efi101 covers. There are also many things that our class went over that were not in the book. Attending the class allows you to pick his brain by asking any reasonable question you can think of.

There are a few of you that think you know it all and wouldn't gain any knowledge from it, and I highly disagree. Although I'm not a tuner I do believe there is always a lot to be learned about tuning. You dont just learn how to tune once and then just stop learning. It is a constant learning curve. Being a tuner also requires that you are a very good @ trouble-shooting, something that you also learn more of at efi-101...


EFI-101 is a great school, and I think you shouldnt "bash" it if you havent even attended a class.

Rain_man

Thanks for all the replies guys, I appreciate it. I'm going to do some more research on the self taught route as I learn much better via books and trial and error than "lecture" style teaching.

I'd much rather save the 400 on the 101 class and put it toward the advanced class, where Ben's experience and knowledge can't be found in a textbook.

XDEep

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kpt4321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Unless he and another couple of volunteers put on big molecule suits and did a little combustion jig, I'm pretty sure he didn't explain A/F ratio in a way deserving of the "amazing" title.</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha "who's gonna be the .7?"

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kpt4321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's not worth my $500 or whatever, I just don't have that kind of money. Sorry.

I'd like to see where I said I wouldn't learn anything from it. Oh yeah, I didn't, once again. But hey, if you guys need to keep putting words in my mouth, feel free.

I said that it wasn't worth the money for me personally, and that the thing about A/F ratio was funny. That's all.


It's funny that you're still on this. Did he do the combustion jig?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no he didn't do a combustion jig. He just put what goes on into perspective. Basically he makes you understand why the a/f ratio doesn't even matter. Its not always the same on every engine. but you already know this.

AbaZ

We have a class coming up next month and I am still debating wether or not I am going to go. I cant justify spending that much money on 8 hours of time. I just don't want to come out of the class going "Great I already knew most of that stuff and I learned alot more about it "in depth" But was it really worth it..?

Someone tape this class, lol

Flamenco-T

This is my take on the class.

I have taken 2 courses for the EFI-101, and will be taking the advance class. Chris is correct, if you expect to be able to tune a car when you leave the class, then forget it. It is not for you, you may just paid a highly qualified tuner to tune the car and be done with it.

This class is about learning the Reasoning behind tuning. We know to take out .5 deg per psi and yadda yadda yadda, but do you know WHY you need to take timing out ? What is timing ? we all know detonation is bad, but What is it ? what is the difference between Detonation and Pre-ignition ?

I can pretty guarantee that most of us don't know everything and anything about it. What Ben does is he gathers all these information and pass it on to us. I have sat in a class with some of the highly regarded Famous tuners, and everyone still appalding Ben's knowledge on the class. There are so much to learn, if you want to be to walk, you first need to crawl. You want to be able to learn how to tune, you need the know the reasoning behind it. It's not just opening a laptop,change this, change that and let's go..

You don't go to mechanic school for 2 years and be a master engine builder the day after. That comes with experience, take the knowledge from the class and start to play aorund a little bit in your safety adn comfort zones, then move forward...

stan