Cometic Headgasket - The Review
08-28-2007, 07:50 PM
#1
BCICAN
Thread Starter
Cometic Headgasket - The Review
For all you lazy people, just read the Results section.
First and foremost, I am by no means talking **** just to hear myself rattle away on the internet. I do believe it is my responsibility to inform others about this issue so I may hopefully prevent some other poor soul from going through what I did.
I don't even know really where to begin so here it goes:
Background:
The motor is 100% build top to bottom, front to back. ERL sleeves, headwork, etc. The ERL job was performed during the summer of 2005. The block was sent to them and a shop that is quite knowledge about Honda's installed the motor for me. They did it because I was interning and didn't physically have the time to mess with it. All went well...or so I thought.
The Problem #1:
1.) Right off the bat I began having weird cooling problems. The car would be fine for a couple of days after I bleed the system, and then it would mysteriously generate a pocket of air.
2.) The overflow would be going down as well. So I started reading and thought, ok, I'll just do a compression & leak down test and see what that tells me. Both of them came back pretty normal so I started scratching my head.
3.) Wellll maybe it's the radiator I thought, so I called up PWR and have a custom full-sized radiator build per my design (gotta love AutoCAD). The cooling was better and it stayed normal for a little longer, but eventually the problem persisted. So then I'm thinking "WTF!" I go through the winter months and become pissed off enough that the following spring I pulled the head off and inspected everything.
What Did I Find #1:
- The sleeves were straighter than 0.0015" and the head was straight as can be as well. The old headgasket did not really have any signs of leaking and I had two other engine builders look at it too. I did not have it pressure tested because I was sure that a new Cometic headgasket would solve the problem.
The Problem #2:
- I put the motor back together myself this time. Things were ok for about a week and I thought I had fixed it. Nope, nice try. The problem put up it's ugly head once again and bite me in the ***. I've tried everything by this point so I begin thinking that perhaps it's just my motor. But why me? Everyone else with build motors in the world is not having this problem. Fast forwarding a year later to present day, I pulled the motor apart once again.
What Did I Find #2:
- Again the sleeves were straighter than 0.0015" and the head was pressure tested this time. Everything mechanically was perfect in the motor from the start.
- Again there were no real obvious signs that the headgasket was the culprit. There was; however, very small indicators that maybe....juuuuust maybe the headgasket was leaking. This time I was not going to install another Cometic gasket. No no, this time I would install a Golden Eagle 84mm gasket and I copper sprayed it 5 times on both sides.
The Result:
- In 3 weeks I have no used up a drop of coolant. The overheating problems are gone. So gee how could this be? Before I say this, search my previous posts about Cometic. I have defended their name since day one, but now I am retracting every one of those posts. Plain and simple: Cometic gasket suck d*ck! They were the sole reason I had a major PAIN IN THE *** time dealing with my car for 2 years. Never again will I use Cometics. Every shop that I help out at and every person I ever come in contact with will hear the story about how much these gaskets blow.
- See, I can legitimately say this because I am not just going off on a tangent about a mere belief without experience. I have lived with the problem for two years so I have every right in the world to explain how they are not of good quality. If you think I'm an idiot, then ask yourself this: Do you honest believe that with a perfect function motor that the problems would just disappear after installing a different brand headgasket? Everything was held constant. Plus if you say "Oh, well it could have been a bad batch." My response is, a bad batch? I had two "bad" gaskets that were bought a year or so apart? If that's the case then Cometic has no business producing anything if that is the quality control standards they hold.
I hope this information may help others in the future.
First and foremost, I am by no means talking **** just to hear myself rattle away on the internet. I do believe it is my responsibility to inform others about this issue so I may hopefully prevent some other poor soul from going through what I did.
I don't even know really where to begin so here it goes:
Background:
The motor is 100% build top to bottom, front to back. ERL sleeves, headwork, etc. The ERL job was performed during the summer of 2005. The block was sent to them and a shop that is quite knowledge about Honda's installed the motor for me. They did it because I was interning and didn't physically have the time to mess with it. All went well...or so I thought.
The Problem #1:
1.) Right off the bat I began having weird cooling problems. The car would be fine for a couple of days after I bleed the system, and then it would mysteriously generate a pocket of air.
2.) The overflow would be going down as well. So I started reading and thought, ok, I'll just do a compression & leak down test and see what that tells me. Both of them came back pretty normal so I started scratching my head.
3.) Wellll maybe it's the radiator I thought, so I called up PWR and have a custom full-sized radiator build per my design (gotta love AutoCAD). The cooling was better and it stayed normal for a little longer, but eventually the problem persisted. So then I'm thinking "WTF!" I go through the winter months and become pissed off enough that the following spring I pulled the head off and inspected everything.
What Did I Find #1:
- The sleeves were straighter than 0.0015" and the head was straight as can be as well. The old headgasket did not really have any signs of leaking and I had two other engine builders look at it too. I did not have it pressure tested because I was sure that a new Cometic headgasket would solve the problem.
The Problem #2:
- I put the motor back together myself this time. Things were ok for about a week and I thought I had fixed it. Nope, nice try. The problem put up it's ugly head once again and bite me in the ***. I've tried everything by this point so I begin thinking that perhaps it's just my motor. But why me? Everyone else with build motors in the world is not having this problem. Fast forwarding a year later to present day, I pulled the motor apart once again.
What Did I Find #2:
- Again the sleeves were straighter than 0.0015" and the head was pressure tested this time. Everything mechanically was perfect in the motor from the start.
- Again there were no real obvious signs that the headgasket was the culprit. There was; however, very small indicators that maybe....juuuuust maybe the headgasket was leaking. This time I was not going to install another Cometic gasket. No no, this time I would install a Golden Eagle 84mm gasket and I copper sprayed it 5 times on both sides.
The Result:
- In 3 weeks I have no used up a drop of coolant. The overheating problems are gone. So gee how could this be? Before I say this, search my previous posts about Cometic. I have defended their name since day one, but now I am retracting every one of those posts. Plain and simple: Cometic gasket suck d*ck! They were the sole reason I had a major PAIN IN THE *** time dealing with my car for 2 years. Never again will I use Cometics. Every shop that I help out at and every person I ever come in contact with will hear the story about how much these gaskets blow.
- See, I can legitimately say this because I am not just going off on a tangent about a mere belief without experience. I have lived with the problem for two years so I have every right in the world to explain how they are not of good quality. If you think I'm an idiot, then ask yourself this: Do you honest believe that with a perfect function motor that the problems would just disappear after installing a different brand headgasket? Everything was held constant. Plus if you say "Oh, well it could have been a bad batch." My response is, a bad batch? I had two "bad" gaskets that were bought a year or so apart? If that's the case then Cometic has no business producing anything if that is the quality control standards they hold.
I hope this information may help others in the future.
08-28-2007, 08:18 PM
#2
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Re: Cometic Headgasket - The Review (Dunc)
Is the GE gasket an oem one bored to 84mm? If so, what would be the difference between that and the oem B20 gasket?
Good to hear you're up and running.
Good to hear you're up and running.
08-28-2007, 08:40 PM
#4
BCICAN
Thread Starter
Re: Cometic Headgasket - The Review (stealthmode62)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthmode62 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Is the GE gasket an oem one bored to 84mm? If so, what would be the difference between that and the oem B20 gasket?
Good to hear you're up and running. </TD></TR></TABLE>
From what I hear from GE, yes it is a stock one that they modify to 84mm. I asked them if they heard of copper spraying and if they reccomend it or not on their gaskets. He replied, "Yes, we copper spray all of our gaskets." That was good enough for me.
I'm not sure what the difference is, all I know is that it works. At this point, that's really all I care about
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WHTZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow I'm going through this same drama as we speak! </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry to hear it, I know how frustrating it can be. It's worth a shot depending if you have the same exact symptoms or not. Oh yea, also when I shut the engine off air bubbles would come out of the fill port.
Good to hear you're up and running. </TD></TR></TABLE>
From what I hear from GE, yes it is a stock one that they modify to 84mm. I asked them if they heard of copper spraying and if they reccomend it or not on their gaskets. He replied, "Yes, we copper spray all of our gaskets." That was good enough for me.
I'm not sure what the difference is, all I know is that it works. At this point, that's really all I care about
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WHTZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow I'm going through this same drama as we speak! </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry to hear it, I know how frustrating it can be. It's worth a shot depending if you have the same exact symptoms or not. Oh yea, also when I shut the engine off air bubbles would come out of the fill port.
08-29-2007, 02:33 AM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (patrick4588)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by patrick4588 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe the copper spray was what helped it. put copper spray on the cometic and see how it does.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<--- was going to say the same thing.
Dunc, which cometic gasket were you running the fire ring gasket or the MLS ?
<--- was going to say the same thing.
Dunc, which cometic gasket were you running the fire ring gasket or the MLS ?
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08-29-2007, 02:47 AM
#8
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (DaveF)
To make this thread real, we have to assume he used copper spray on both Cometics. If he didn't, this thread is worthless.
I have always used copper spray with both OEM and Cometic's. rota92 and I can say we have never had a HG fail on there own.
We even had Cometics hold for a while with sinking sleeves.
I have always used copper spray with both OEM and Cometic's. rota92 and I can say we have never had a HG fail on there own.
We even had Cometics hold for a while with sinking sleeves.
08-29-2007, 04:32 AM
#9
BCICAN
Thread Starter
Re: (patrick4588)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1992Si »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To make this thread real, we have to assume he used copper spray on both Cometics. If he didn't, this thread is worthless.
I have always used copper spray with both OEM and Cometic's. rota92 and I can say we have never had a HG fail on there own.
We even had Cometics hold for a while with sinking sleeves. </TD></TR></TABLE>
When I first got the car I had it 6 days before I turboed it and put the ls/vtec conversion on. I used a GE 81mm gasket that time and it was not copper sprayed. It never overheated and the thought never even entered my mind about overheating. So in total this will be my 2nd GE gasket but 4th in the cars lifetime.
2003 - GE 81mm unsprayed...no overheating
2005 - Cometic 84mm unsprayed...overheating
2006 - Cometic 84mm unsprayed...overheating
2007 - GE 84mm sprayed...no overheating again.
I'd agree that perhaps the copper sprayed has helped in even better sealing, but the first GE gasket was not sprayed and caused no problem. I would also expect nothing less from any gasket manufacturer than a gasket that does not necessarily have to be sprayed in order to work. It should work correctly as produced.
Everything that I have read points to Cometics being a gambling game if they will work or not. A lot of people have luck, a lot of people don't. On the other hand, the OEM gasket has far less instances like that.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by patrick4588 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe the copper spray was what helped it. put copper spray on the cometic and see how it does.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There no chance in hell that I am going to do that haha. Never again will I put a Cometic gasket on my car. It's working perfectly fine now and I have no intention of pulling that motor apart again just to test out copper spray on a gasket that I know is not up to standard.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><--- was going to say the same thing.
Dunc, which cometic gasket were you running the fire ring gasket or the MLS ? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe it is the MLS. I bought both gaskets through ERL directly.
I have always used copper spray with both OEM and Cometic's. rota92 and I can say we have never had a HG fail on there own.
We even had Cometics hold for a while with sinking sleeves. </TD></TR></TABLE>
When I first got the car I had it 6 days before I turboed it and put the ls/vtec conversion on. I used a GE 81mm gasket that time and it was not copper sprayed. It never overheated and the thought never even entered my mind about overheating. So in total this will be my 2nd GE gasket but 4th in the cars lifetime.
2003 - GE 81mm unsprayed...no overheating
2005 - Cometic 84mm unsprayed...overheating
2006 - Cometic 84mm unsprayed...overheating
2007 - GE 84mm sprayed...no overheating again.
I'd agree that perhaps the copper sprayed has helped in even better sealing, but the first GE gasket was not sprayed and caused no problem. I would also expect nothing less from any gasket manufacturer than a gasket that does not necessarily have to be sprayed in order to work. It should work correctly as produced.
Everything that I have read points to Cometics being a gambling game if they will work or not. A lot of people have luck, a lot of people don't. On the other hand, the OEM gasket has far less instances like that.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by patrick4588 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe the copper spray was what helped it. put copper spray on the cometic and see how it does.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There no chance in hell that I am going to do that haha. Never again will I put a Cometic gasket on my car. It's working perfectly fine now and I have no intention of pulling that motor apart again just to test out copper spray on a gasket that I know is not up to standard.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><--- was going to say the same thing.
Dunc, which cometic gasket were you running the fire ring gasket or the MLS ? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe it is the MLS. I bought both gaskets through ERL directly.
08-29-2007, 05:02 AM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Dunc)
I have had that same problem with other erl blocks, cometic gaskets always tend to get leaky on those blocks, especially when they decide to step deck them. now that we generally only use aebs sleeves we can use whatever gasket we want and never have any problems.
08-29-2007, 06:28 AM
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we had a stock sleeved 82mm N/A honda with a cometic gasket that poured coolant into the number 4 cylinder from the second the motor turned over. swapped in a honda gasket problem went away. weird...
here is the way i see it. a lot of people have had success with the cometics some have had nightmares.
just about everyone has success with an oem gasket though.
and yes dunc ive seen quite a few of your posts defending cometic in the past. hope this oem one works well for you. the typical argument for bad cometic gasket is: "you must have done something wrong, or installed it improperly." funny how noone ever installs a honda gasket wrong though. same with broken crower cams always being installed wrong lol.
here is the way i see it. a lot of people have had success with the cometics some have had nightmares.
just about everyone has success with an oem gasket though.
and yes dunc ive seen quite a few of your posts defending cometic in the past. hope this oem one works well for you. the typical argument for bad cometic gasket is: "you must have done something wrong, or installed it improperly." funny how noone ever installs a honda gasket wrong though. same with broken crower cams always being installed wrong lol.
08-29-2007, 06:40 AM
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Re: Cometic Headgasket - The Review (Dunc)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dunc »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sorry to hear it, I know how frustrating it can be. It's worth a shot depending if you have the same exact symptoms or not. Oh yea, also when I shut the engine off air bubbles would come out of the fill port.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yea when i was bleeding my coolant system it was millions of bubbles for days...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1992Si »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To make this thread real, we have to assume he used copper spray on both Cometics. If he didn't, this thread is worthless.
I have always used copper spray with both OEM and Cometic's. rota92 and I can say we have never had a HG fail on there own.
We even had Cometics hold for a while with sinking sleeves.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I used Copper spray on the Cometic when I still had the overheating issues and it didn't work.. I also used Copper spray on the GE headgasket and it never overheated until I sunk a sleeve
Sorry to hear it, I know how frustrating it can be. It's worth a shot depending if you have the same exact symptoms or not. Oh yea, also when I shut the engine off air bubbles would come out of the fill port.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yea when i was bleeding my coolant system it was millions of bubbles for days...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1992Si »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To make this thread real, we have to assume he used copper spray on both Cometics. If he didn't, this thread is worthless.
I have always used copper spray with both OEM and Cometic's. rota92 and I can say we have never had a HG fail on there own.
We even had Cometics hold for a while with sinking sleeves.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I used Copper spray on the Cometic when I still had the overheating issues and it didn't work.. I also used Copper spray on the GE headgasket and it never overheated until I sunk a sleeve
08-29-2007, 10:30 PM
#13
Re: Cometic Headgasket - The Review (WHTZ)
i think i may have the same problem. i swapped a head from a perfectly running motor onto another perfectly running motor - used a cometic head gasket and ARP headstuds. once i assembled the motor, it was over heating. when i remove the thermo, it doesnt overheat though. i tested the thermo and it was prefectly fine.
pretty sure there shoiuld be no warpage in the head.
pretty sure there shoiuld be no warpage in the head.
08-30-2007, 03:04 AM
#14
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Re: Cometic Headgasket - The Review (nabin)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nabin »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think i may have the same problem. i swapped a head from a perfectly running motor onto another perfectly running motor - used a cometic head gasket and ARP headstuds. once i assembled the motor, it was over heating. when i remove the thermo, it doesnt overheat though. i tested the thermo and it was prefectly fine.
pretty sure there shoiuld be no warpage in the head. </TD></TR></TABLE>
just like your were pretty sure your water pump was new... lol......
pretty sure there shoiuld be no warpage in the head. </TD></TR></TABLE>
just like your were pretty sure your water pump was new... lol......
08-30-2007, 08:22 AM
#16
Re: Cometic Headgasket - The Review (Dunc)
I'm not sure if this a review, but the information definitely confirms some of my own experience.
I'm not a strong believer in copper spray, but I definitely believe in OEM head gaskets.
Thanks for sharing.
I'm not a strong believer in copper spray, but I definitely believe in OEM head gaskets.
Thanks for sharing.
07-11-2008, 05:00 PM
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Re: (ryan89crx)
my friend went through the samething just this week. His motor has 500 miles on and it does the samething your car was doing. He just ordered GE headgasket.
07-11-2008, 05:06 PM
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Re: (Turbocivic94)
thats weird...ive had cometic MLS gaskets on 3 different setups one of them being sleeved and boosted and never had a problem with any of them nor did i spray copper sealant on any of them
07-11-2008, 09:22 PM
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Re: (hotrod99)
I had coolant gushing out the back of my motor after less than 100km's with a copper sprayed cometic head gasket. I went with OEM - no copper spray and it's been holding fine. I'll never go back to cometic, it was a huge pain in the *** especially because I was using other peoples garages!
07-12-2008, 11:20 AM
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Re: (B20EF)
I ran cometic headgasket before on my B20vtec and had the same problem. I switched over to B20 oem honda gasket. problem went away. I would never run cometic gasket again.
07-13-2008, 08:14 AM
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op, what head studs/bolts were you using at the time? have a 84mm erl sleeved gsr that i will be starting within a month and dont want to run into the same problems.