Full-Race Geoff

I really do not know much about the avilable coatings on the market. I believe very strongly that coatings help (as long as its the right coating for the right application) and want to know what everyone thinks

are there any representatives from coating companies on here?

done

Breif overview of coatings. Thermal Coatings are very good at keeping engine bay temperatures down. Also they are said to increase power. (lower temps = more power). Also said to help increase spool up, due to more thermal energy being persent. They come in tons and tons of colors.

There are tons of coatings out there. Here are a few links.
http://www.swaintech.com (Famous for pistons, headers, combustion chambers)
http://www.jet-hot.com
http://www.hpcoatings.com


Examples:
Swaintech Header Coat


TheShodan Turbo and Header Coating



edit: will delete once thread is going.

EBP.EM1

whats the advantage or disadvantage of each brand? if any.

like Swaintech vs jet hot?

in your other thread jordo, you said that the Swaintech was both inside and out? what is the benifit of having it coated on the inside aswell?

done

All brands I've dealt with do inside and out. Its better thermal protection, it just helps keep heat inside the piping. Basically its insulation.

Advantage and Disadvantages, that is going to have to be from a personal level. I guess some advantage over another brand would be, some offer more colors, some offer high temps. Whatever brand you go with will swear they have the best product, so you really just have to make up your own mind. I personally like how swaintech does engine components.

Ive personally had coating similar to HPC. I had my full race manifold/ turbine housing coated 2000degrees black, and my compressor coated in 1500 silver. It was very nice, i didnt have any problems with it flaking or anything. It made working in engine bay much easier. I swore it made more power and spooled quicker.

Some road racing guys will beat the living **** out of their coatings though.

alpha

I have "theories" but no real world numbers. If enough people are interested I would do some tests between two, coated and uncoated, equal length manifolds later on. I have asked a rep for Swain Tech and TheShodan to add to this thread.

Dragline

I think that ceramic coatings on turbo manifolds should be applied to the inside of the runners only, not the outside because your trying to use it to cut down on the heat transfer into the metal and by doing the outside your just trapping the heat in and also shorting the life of your manifold.

done

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have "theories" but no real world numbers. If enough people are interested I would do some tests between two, coated and uncoated, equal length manifolds later on. I have asked a rep for Swain Tech and TheShodan to add to this thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you guys really want a test. I can go ahead and perform it. I am about to send my stuff off to get coated.

EBP.EM1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jordo@KAP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All brands I've dealt with do inside and out. Its better thermal protection, it just helps keep heat inside the piping. Basically its insulation.

Advantage and Disadvantages, that is going to have to be from a personal level. I guess some advantage over another brand would be, some offer more colors, some offer high temps. Whatever brand you go with will swear they have the best product, so you really just have to make up your own mind. I personally like how swaintech does engine components.

Ive personally had coating similar to HPC. I had my full race manifold/ turbine housing coated 2000degrees black, and my compressor coated in 1500 silver. It was very nice, i didnt have any problems with it flaking or anything. It made working in engine bay much easier. I swore it made more power and spooled quicker.

Some road racing guys will beat the living **** out of their coatings though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks for the info!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have "theories" but no real world numbers. If enough people are interested I would do some tests between two, coated and uncoated, equal length manifolds later on. I have asked a rep for Swain Tech and TheShodan to add to this thread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

interested!

dome

iTrader: (1)

majority if not all the companys do both inside and outside coatings.

andysila

Whats the difference between heat-wrap and coatings? Advantanges and disadvantages?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dragline &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think that ceramic coatings on turbo manifolds should be applied to the inside of the runners only, not the outside because your trying to use it to cut down on the heat transfer into the metal and by doing the outside your just trapping the heat in and also shorting the life of your manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>

In this case it seems as though you're using logic, not chemistry.....


The coating on the manifold (if applied correctly, of course) creates an exogenric reaction of the heat (keeping the exhaust heat from radiating throughout the surface of the metal, and exuting (sp?) additional scavenging properties from exhaust turbulence. Coating the outside helps keep the heat INSIDE, in order to maximize these exhaust turbulent properties.

I've used them on many of my turbo designs and have found some great results. Its not to the point where it changes efficiency by over 50% or make spooling properties go down by a ton, but it does help with making the turbo get a bit of a positive "shove" of additional efficiency.

My partner had performed some data testing of temperature variances, but I can't seem to find it right now.

Here are some other examples.







On both the black and silver, they will eventually fade from its luster but no rust will occur. There are several other colors (including the white that SWAINTECH uses,) but they are a bit more expensive


Modified by TheShodan at 1:30 AM 8/17/2005

Finland

A lot of people seem to totally ignore thermal management on their turbo cars. For me it was one of the first considerations. Heat is energy that needs to be controlled, and harnessed. On a turbo car, it only makes perfect sense to try to keep as much heat inside the manifold as possible. It brings back the old Delta P concept, the turbo works as a function of Delta P, the higher the delta, the faster the turbo will spin and the quicker it will spool.

With stainless downpipes, I argue that coatings and wrapping is unnecessary. If anyone's interested, I'll explain why I feel this way.

mike1114

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Boondock Saint]A lot of people seem to totally ignore thermal management on their turbo cars. For me it was one of the first considerations. Heat is energy that needs to be controlled, and harnessed. On a turbo car, it only makes perfect sense to try to keep as much heat inside the manifold as possible.QUOTE]



Was my major concern also. Venting underhood temps is another one of mine!

I used a place local to me for thermal coating called Hyperkote. I got the 2000 deg black on my full race mani and turbo exhaust housing.

Finland

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike1114 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Was my major concern also. Venting underhood temps is another one of mine!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Take out the weatherstripping on the hood by the cowl..if you haven't yet.

V-SPEC 1

Coating the inside of the manifold i think is good but, when the coating starts to peel out, and where is it going to? its going into your turbo and damage it. Even though the company said it has a lifetime warranty against flaking or peeling, it's going to peel out eventually.

mike1114

iTrader: (1)

I thought the same thing and DID NOT have the inside coated. I'm sure it works a little less but I was worried about it flaking eventually.

DaveF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boondock Saint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

With stainless downpipes, I argue that coatings and wrapping is unnecessary. If anyone's interested, I'll explain why I feel this way.</TD></TR></TABLE>

id like to hear your explanation.

here is my "argument" if you will.

i belive you would benefit from a coated or a heatwrapped downpipe or exhaust. it would keep the heat in, allowing the gas's to travel out of your exhaust faster.. hotter= faster

EBP.EM1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by V-SPEC 1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Coating the inside of the manifold i think is good but, when the coating starts to peel out, and where is it going to? its going into your turbo and damage it. Even though the company said it has a lifetime warranty against flaking or peeling, it's going to peel out eventually.</TD></TR></TABLE>

good point, i would like to know about this aswell.

D@nnY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dragline &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think that ceramic coatings on turbo manifolds should be applied to the inside of the runners only, not the outside because your trying to use it to cut down on the heat transfer into the metal and by doing the outside your just trapping the heat in and also shorting the life of your manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Trapping the heat in results in higher exhaust gas velocity faster spool up and greater overall efficency...its not about protecting the manifold

95c1v1cs1

I'm pretty interested in the coatings as well. Particularly Pistons, Bearings, and other internal parts.

Bump to keep me updated.

V-SPEC 1

Coated engine bearings is proven to dramatically reduce catastrophic engine failures. Engines incorrectly plumbed or suffering from low or no oil pressure, cold starts, low or no flow have survived with little or no significant damage. Engines in racecars that have wrecked and lost oil pump drive belts have been able to pit for repairs, replace their belts and be back on the track to finish the race and finish well.
Engines overheating from cooling system failure to the point of oil “breakdown” have avoided total destruction of expensive components (block, rods, and crankshafts) due to the secondary lubrication provided by say, .0002 to .0004 inch layer of dry film lubricant. Thus, eliminating downtime associated with these types of engine failures. reduce catastrophic engine failures and last longer than uncoated bearings.

Engine bearings coating last longer than uncoated bearings. Customers have returned Winston Cup bearings with as much as 2000 race miles and show relatively no wear. Short track engines that have been used for two or three seasons of weekly racing appear to still be serviceable. Bearings from drag racers that have been used for five seasons with an untold number of passes are also serviceable. In all applications, coated engine bearings have proven to successfully save time and money for all racers using the coating. With minimal investment, engine builders can rest a little easier knowing they have a wider margin of safety to rely on.

• Reduces Engine Failure
• Extends Bearing Life
• Reduces Oil Temperatures
• Increases Horsepower and Efficiency
• Saves Time and Money and Protects your Investment

paulzy

iTrader: (1)

anybody try the caoted clevite77 bearings yet? or

would it be better coating some stockers or ACL's instead?

80884

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boondock Saint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With stainless downpipes, I argue that coatings and wrapping is unnecessary. If anyone's interested, I'll explain why I feel this way.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please explain.....If it has to do with keeping the life up on the stainless then it doesn't matter, But if it has to with the performance effect i would like to hear.

I'm not starting an argument but your saying a stainless down pipe, no coating or wrap, is just as good as a coated or wrapped stainless downpipe?

V-SPEC 1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by paul vang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anybody try the caoted clevite77 bearings yet? or

would it be better coating some stockers or ACL's instead?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good

V-SPEC 1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by paul vang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anybody try the caoted clevite77 bearings yet? or

would it be better coating some stockers or ACL's instead?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good question on the stockers or ACL being coated. I would prefer the OEM and get them coated. Just make sure you have enough clearance.