ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp??
12-04-2003, 01:44 AM
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Re: (Arturbo)
?<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> 
Some pics of the race version that only has a pulley for the alternator. The street version that will have AC and PS is not ready yet.
] </TD></TR></TABLE>i think i want to keep power steering ac has been gone along time ago.
any idea on teh prices for the new unit coming out
Some pics of the race version that only has a pulley for the alternator. The street version that will have AC and PS is not ready yet.
] </TD></TR></TABLE>i think i want to keep power steering ac has been gone along time ago.
any idea on teh prices for the new unit coming out
12-04-2003, 02:30 AM
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (Arturbo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I belive a stock damper is 6lbs, fluidamper is 7lbs...
Fluidamper is $350 plus shipping.
art</TD></TR></TABLE>
Fluidamper is $350 plus shipping.
art</TD></TR></TABLE>
12-12-2003, 11:00 AM
#32
Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (Turbologist)
The ATI is not an OEM replacement unit, as it has no serpentine grooves in it. It is however designed for high HP, high RPM race engines.
The fluidampr was designed for diesel engines and loses its effectiveness over 6K RPM. Unlike the ATI unit, which was designed specifically for high RPM engines.
I don't recall ever seeing a fluidamper being on any 24 hours of LeMans or Daytona winning cars.
Modified by Tim2179 at 8:14 PM 11/4/2004
The fluidampr was designed for diesel engines and loses its effectiveness over 6K RPM. Unlike the ATI unit, which was designed specifically for high RPM engines.
I don't recall ever seeing a fluidamper being on any 24 hours of LeMans or Daytona winning cars.
Modified by Tim2179 at 8:14 PM 11/4/2004
12-12-2003, 07:07 PM
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (CrazyCompression)
i dont think you need to change the stock pulley to an ATI unless you want to do the engine timiung off the crank like with a MSD crank trigger..
12-12-2003, 08:26 PM
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (Tim2179)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tim2179 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The ATI is not an OEM replacement unit, as it has no serpentine grooves in it. It is however designed for high HP, high RPM race engines. Stephan Papadakis, Jojo Callos, and the Venom cars all use it. Perhaps you have heard of them before?
The "fluidampr" that you people keep talking about was designed for diesel engines and loses its effectiveness over 6K RPM. Unlike the ATI unit, which was designed specifically for high RPM engines.
I don't recall ever seeing a fluidamper being on any 24 hours of LeMans or Daytona winning cars..hmm...wonder why
Modified by Tim2179 at 8:12 PM 12/12/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>
can anyone else shed some light on this??
The "fluidampr" that you people keep talking about was designed for diesel engines and loses its effectiveness over 6K RPM. Unlike the ATI unit, which was designed specifically for high RPM engines.
I don't recall ever seeing a fluidamper being on any 24 hours of LeMans or Daytona winning cars..hmm...wonder why
Modified by Tim2179 at 8:12 PM 12/12/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>
can anyone else shed some light on this??
12-12-2003, 09:29 PM
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (MotorMatrix.com)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MotorMatrix.com »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
can anyone else shed some light on this??</TD></TR></TABLE>
?
can anyone else shed some light on this??</TD></TR></TABLE>
?
12-12-2003, 09:42 PM
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (Tim2179)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tim2179 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The ATI is not an OEM replacement unit, as it has no serpentine grooves in it. It is however designed for high HP, high RPM race engines. Stephan Papadakis, Jojo Callos, and the Venom cars all use it. Perhaps you have heard of them before?
The "fluidampr" that you people keep talking about was designed for diesel engines and loses its effectiveness over 6K RPM. Unlike the ATI unit, which was designed specifically for high RPM engines.
I don't recall ever seeing a fluidamper being on any 24 hours of LeMans or Daytona winning cars..hmm...wonder why
Modified by Tim2179 at 8:12 PM 12/12/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>
The reason you will see Jojo, kenny, steph and everyone else use one is because it was the only one available up until now. The fluidamper will dampen at all RPMs.
I actually hope to have some test done on a B18C5 on the engine dyno soon.
art
The "fluidampr" that you people keep talking about was designed for diesel engines and loses its effectiveness over 6K RPM. Unlike the ATI unit, which was designed specifically for high RPM engines.
I don't recall ever seeing a fluidamper being on any 24 hours of LeMans or Daytona winning cars..hmm...wonder why
Modified by Tim2179 at 8:12 PM 12/12/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>
The reason you will see Jojo, kenny, steph and everyone else use one is because it was the only one available up until now. The fluidamper will dampen at all RPMs.
I actually hope to have some test done on a B18C5 on the engine dyno soon.
art
12-12-2003, 10:01 PM
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Re: (Paul_Vang)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Paul_Vang »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what happened to the one that Wil was selling? any info on that one yet?</TD></TR></TABLE>
We carry the Evolution Industries pulley.
Its $199.00 for this SFI approved pulley.
About 3 lbs. Super lightweight.
Made out of 7075 Aluminum.
Spun to 12,500 RPMs for 1 hour to pass SFI specs.
* also will be available with P/S *
Modified by exospeedAMcrx at 2:53 AM 12/13/2003
We carry the Evolution Industries pulley.
Its $199.00 for this SFI approved pulley.
About 3 lbs. Super lightweight.
Made out of 7075 Aluminum.
Spun to 12,500 RPMs for 1 hour to pass SFI specs.
* also will be available with P/S *
Modified by exospeedAMcrx at 2:53 AM 12/13/2003
12-12-2003, 10:26 PM
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (Tim2179)
A properly designed dampner removes harmonic vibrations at various rpm ranges, not just high rpm. Just like the example I gave before with something rattling in your car, it can happen at various speeds, it's the nature of harmonics. And yes, the Fluidampr is a very new product to the import world, but it isn't straight out of a diesel engine.
12-13-2003, 01:27 AM
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (daigo)
ATI states, "Your car will run as fast or faster than with your present damper or your money back." I'm curious to see what a dyno would show between the Fluidampr & the ATI piece. Has anyone had them both on a dyno???
I dunno, but I think if the top guys in motorsports (NHRA, NASCAR, ALMS, etc...too many to list) are using the ATI when there are plenty of options available - it's probably for a reason.
As for "that rattle in your car" analogy - how many motors do you know of that blow at 2,000 RPM???
It is true - in part - that fluidamprs were designed for diesel engines. Fluidampr was started by a company called Vibratech - a "leader in motion control
solutions for the rail market" However Fluidampr is recently under new ownership since <U>going out of business</U> last spring (hmmm...that should say something).
But to get to the topic of the thread - If you are running 700whp it would suck to watch a shitty balancer fly off that motor (off the motor, across the floor, and up the wall really) on the dyno...be safe and get the best **** you can - so you don't have to build the motor twice.
That's my 2¢
I dunno, but I think if the top guys in motorsports (NHRA, NASCAR, ALMS, etc...too many to list) are using the ATI when there are plenty of options available - it's probably for a reason.
As for "that rattle in your car" analogy - how many motors do you know of that blow at 2,000 RPM???
It is true - in part - that fluidamprs were designed for diesel engines. Fluidampr was started by a company called Vibratech - a "leader in motion control
solutions for the rail market" However Fluidampr is recently under new ownership since <U>going out of business</U> last spring (hmmm...that should say something).
But to get to the topic of the thread - If you are running 700whp it would suck to watch a shitty balancer fly off that motor (off the motor, across the floor, and up the wall really) on the dyno...be safe and get the best **** you can - so you don't have to build the motor twice.
That's my 2¢
12-13-2003, 01:47 AM
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp??
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would like to know why that website claims NHRA requires a SFI approved Damper for under 10.99. Are they afraid your massive honda crank pulley is going to explode and fly into the crowd?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's no lie - it's an NHRA rule:
http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/ETQuickRef.html
I'm skeptical of this Fluidampr hype - seems to me if Honda guys are winning championships with the ATI Damper - I'd trust them over a Fluidampr peddler trying to get rid of his stock.
It's no lie - it's an NHRA rule:
http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/ETQuickRef.html
I'm skeptical of this Fluidampr hype - seems to me if Honda guys are winning championships with the ATI Damper - I'd trust them over a Fluidampr peddler trying to get rid of his stock.
12-13-2003, 05:43 AM
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (Pete EAA)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pete EAA »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's no lie - it's an NHRA rule:
http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/ETQuickRef.html
I'm skeptical of this Fluidampr hype - seems to me if Honda guys are winning championships with the ATI Damper - I'd trust them over a Fluidampr peddler trying to get rid of his stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well as mentioned previously by Art and others, the ATI dampener was the ONLY one out up until recently when Fluidampr came out for Import aps. Trust me Art doesn't need to try to get rid of his stock and lie about anything, Art will only sell the BEST products he feels is available, Precision turbos and components and Inlinepro manifolds! I know a few people running the ATI now but plan the switch to Fluidampr. We shall see. The ATI works no doubt but as in anything there is something out there always better, don't you hate when you buy something and the company or other company come out with something better? It will always happen.
It's no lie - it's an NHRA rule:
http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/ETQuickRef.html
I'm skeptical of this Fluidampr hype - seems to me if Honda guys are winning championships with the ATI Damper - I'd trust them over a Fluidampr peddler trying to get rid of his stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well as mentioned previously by Art and others, the ATI dampener was the ONLY one out up until recently when Fluidampr came out for Import aps. Trust me Art doesn't need to try to get rid of his stock and lie about anything, Art will only sell the BEST products he feels is available, Precision turbos and components and Inlinepro manifolds! I know a few people running the ATI now but plan the switch to Fluidampr. We shall see. The ATI works no doubt but as in anything there is something out there always better, don't you hate when you buy something and the company or other company come out with something better? It will always happen.
12-13-2003, 06:01 AM
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Re: (RLZengineEJ6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RLZengineEJ6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd like to hear more about the exospeed offereing
is it good for 10k rpm n/a street engines?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct me if i am wrong - but his item is in now way similar to what the discusiion is about- This is about pulleys that help balance the crank at high horsepower- Not your "typical" lightened pulley-
Any disadvantages to these on a daily driver with 3,4, or 500 whp?
is it good for 10k rpm n/a street engines?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct me if i am wrong - but his item is in now way similar to what the discusiion is about- This is about pulleys that help balance the crank at high horsepower- Not your "typical" lightened pulley-
Any disadvantages to these on a daily driver with 3,4, or 500 whp?
12-13-2003, 06:34 AM
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Re: (XratedSi)
Wow, I really wonder how many people are just strictly into Hondas and have never torn into a domestic v8. They’ve had harmonic balancers on V8’s for ages, a lot of the conventional wisdom about balancers read on those site is pertaining to a motor that has more rotating mass and less engineering into the balance of those components. You want to see a motor blow at 2-5,000 rpm? Try running a V8 without a harmonic balancer.
I’m surprised that here hasn’t been a big market for these with everybody complaining about odd wear of bearings and crank walk at high rpm’s. These things could be the snake oil/internet brain trust antidote for all bottom end woes.
As far as the NHRA rule book goes, not having an SFI approved pulley probably won’t knock you out at tech inspection, the same way you don’t get knocked out for not having a approved sticker on your clutch assembly, or a few dozen other small technicalities. But if you want to race, more importantly if you want a shot at the prize money, you have to follow the rules implicitly. As average Hondas on the street start to run faster and faster we’ll start to become more accustomed stuff like this.
I’m surprised that here hasn’t been a big market for these with everybody complaining about odd wear of bearings and crank walk at high rpm’s. These things could be the snake oil/internet brain trust antidote for all bottom end woes.
As far as the NHRA rule book goes, not having an SFI approved pulley probably won’t knock you out at tech inspection, the same way you don’t get knocked out for not having a approved sticker on your clutch assembly, or a few dozen other small technicalities. But if you want to race, more importantly if you want a shot at the prize money, you have to follow the rules implicitly. As average Hondas on the street start to run faster and faster we’ll start to become more accustomed stuff like this.
12-13-2003, 07:27 AM
#48
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (Full-Race Geoff)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Full-Race Geoff »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> if youre running a hondata, you really dont need the ATI. </TD></TR></TABLE>Geoff, I am missing the relationship between the Hondata and ATI?
12-13-2003, 09:01 AM
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Re: (eh-D)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eh-D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, I really wonder how many people are just strictly into Hondas and have never torn into a domestic v8. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats true for many of the older Domestic motors. I believe alot of the newer motors do not use harmonic balancers. correct me if I'm wrong. This is what was explained to me by a former Top Fuel Racer who is now designing parts for Honda Engines.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">]is it good for 10k rpm n/a street engines?</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is being used currently on a 10 sec Race CRX, the pulley with the power steering is used on some Honda-Challenge cars, and we have installed these on a couple of customers street setups(all motor ls/vtecs running about 210-215hp)
Also not all pulleys have to be called "dampener" to be able to balance. The design and weight distribution of the pulley can also have balancing effect on the whole configuration.
Thats true for many of the older Domestic motors. I believe alot of the newer motors do not use harmonic balancers. correct me if I'm wrong. This is what was explained to me by a former Top Fuel Racer who is now designing parts for Honda Engines.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">]is it good for 10k rpm n/a street engines?</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is being used currently on a 10 sec Race CRX, the pulley with the power steering is used on some Honda-Challenge cars, and we have installed these on a couple of customers street setups(all motor ls/vtecs running about 210-215hp)
Also not all pulleys have to be called "dampener" to be able to balance. The design and weight distribution of the pulley can also have balancing effect on the whole configuration.
12-13-2003, 09:26 AM
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Re: ATI Damper... Is it really necessary for over 700whp?? (Pete EAA)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Pete EAA »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ATI states, "Your car will run as fast or faster than with your present damper or your money back." I'm curious to see what a dyno would show between the Fluidampr & the ATI piece. Has anyone had them both on a dyno???
I dunno, but I think if the top guys in motorsports (NHRA, NASCAR, ALMS, etc...too many to list) are using the ATI when there are plenty of options available - it's probably for a reason.
As for "that rattle in your car" analogy - how many motors do you know of that blow at 2,000 RPM???
It is true - in part - that fluidamprs were designed for diesel engines. Fluidampr was started by a company called Vibratech - a "leader in motion control
solutions for the rail market" However Fluidampr is recently under new ownership since <U>going out of business</U> last spring (hmmm...that should say something).
But to get to the topic of the thread - If you are running 700whp it would suck to watch a shitty balancer fly off that motor (off the motor, across the floor, and up the wall really) on the dyno...be safe and get the best **** you can - so you don't have to build the motor twice.
That's my 2¢</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hey Pete, easy on the hammer. DO you still run oil in your engine at 2000 rpm? Why? Have you you ever seen an engine blow at 2000 rpm? Harmonic vibrations cause stress at different rpm ranges. This causes odd bearing wear and other problems. These stresses weaken key components which will fail when put to a high test (ie: 9000rpm). ATI and other designers will tell you their dampners are designed to dampen throughout the rpm range. Also they are not designed to produce more power. The only reason you may, and I stress may see any gains is because of a reduction in your crank flexing which may be throwing off your timing belt's relation to the cam gears. So I wouldn't waste my time on the dyno for this. One more thing, the Fluidampr for the Honda is new to the market this month, so that may explain why no one has used it. Yet.
I dunno, but I think if the top guys in motorsports (NHRA, NASCAR, ALMS, etc...too many to list) are using the ATI when there are plenty of options available - it's probably for a reason.
As for "that rattle in your car" analogy - how many motors do you know of that blow at 2,000 RPM???
It is true - in part - that fluidamprs were designed for diesel engines. Fluidampr was started by a company called Vibratech - a "leader in motion control
solutions for the rail market" However Fluidampr is recently under new ownership since <U>going out of business</U> last spring (hmmm...that should say something).
But to get to the topic of the thread - If you are running 700whp it would suck to watch a shitty balancer fly off that motor (off the motor, across the floor, and up the wall really) on the dyno...be safe and get the best **** you can - so you don't have to build the motor twice.
That's my 2¢</TD></TR></TABLE>
Hey Pete, easy on the hammer. DO you still run oil in your engine at 2000 rpm? Why? Have you you ever seen an engine blow at 2000 rpm? Harmonic vibrations cause stress at different rpm ranges. This causes odd bearing wear and other problems. These stresses weaken key components which will fail when put to a high test (ie: 9000rpm). ATI and other designers will tell you their dampners are designed to dampen throughout the rpm range. Also they are not designed to produce more power. The only reason you may, and I stress may see any gains is because of a reduction in your crank flexing which may be throwing off your timing belt's relation to the cam gears. So I wouldn't waste my time on the dyno for this. One more thing, the Fluidampr for the Honda is new to the market this month, so that may explain why no one has used it. Yet.