700+ hp w/gt4088r
09-06-2007, 03:59 AM
#27
Re: (zexh22eg)
A dyno is a dyno, the reading really doesnt matter as long as you can get repeatable results that you can make accurate changes from. I can believe about a 50-60whp difference in power between a dynojet and dynapack at higher boost levels where wheel spin, tire choice, strapping methods, etc play a huge role in how the power is getting to the roller. At lower power levels the differences arent as drastic because wheel spin is not as much of a factor. Our SFWD crx made 680whp with the GTK 850 that we used for a bit in the beginning of the season and the car went a consistent 9.9 @ 149-152mph. Its about on par with what you guys were seeing with dynojet readings on the 4088's going about the same mph. When we switched to the 42r the car made a little over 900whp at 45psi on the dyno, and was running 158-159mph when we ran that much boost at the track. When the car is running the fuel/timing amounts at the track that were set on the dyno when it made power, than its going to go run the numbers it should at the track. This is the reason we made the switch from the OEM ecu based systems to a standalone this past season.
09-06-2007, 06:32 PM
#28
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Re: 700+ hp w/gt4088r (got wide)
ok let me elaborate on my op i just got my block back from ERL with 84mm darton M.I.D.'s with a balanced LS crank, manley turbo tuff rods, JE coated pistons (i believe 9.0:1 comp) acl coated rod, main and thrust bearings and ARP rod bolts, head and main studs.
so is 8k still on the conservative side for this engine (head work has yet to be started) with the boost level the 4088r will give. if so how high can i SAFELY rev, and is reving higher the only thing holding me back from the 700 range (assuming the head is up to par) or would a 42r be a better turbo for this build/goal?
so is 8k still on the conservative side for this engine (head work has yet to be started) with the boost level the 4088r will give. if so how high can i SAFELY rev, and is reving higher the only thing holding me back from the 700 range (assuming the head is up to par) or would a 42r be a better turbo for this build/goal?
09-07-2007, 12:24 AM
#31
Re: (NOKTURNALCARCLUB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NOKTURNALCARCLUB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GT4094R 741whp @9k RPM and it was still climbing, lemme look for the dyno graph , **** took off sick at 5 grand .... it'll go up to 11000rpm</TD></TR></TABLE>
09-07-2007, 10:59 PM
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Re: (NOKTURNALCARCLUB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NOKTURNALCARCLUB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GT4094R 741whp @9k RPM and it was still climbing, lemme look for the dyno graph , **** took off sick at 5 grand .... it'll go up to 11000rpm</TD></TR></TABLE>
is that 10.7 run on ur sig done with thath 741whp ???
is that 10.7 run on ur sig done with thath 741whp ???
09-07-2007, 11:47 PM
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yes it was, and the reason it was a 10.7 was because i shifted 3rd gear early at like 8k and let off 4th a bit because car was swerving a lot. Should have been a low 10sec, we'll see next weekend in vegas.
09-08-2007, 08:48 AM
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Re: (NOKTURNALCARCLUB)
i forgot to mention the car was previously set up for nitrous and i had planned on running it again with maybe a 100hp shot just for spool up do you guys think this is advisable and would it let me hit 700hp earlier in the rpm range?
09-08-2007, 11:58 PM
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Re: (tony1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There is no average difference because there are too many settings on the dynopack that can affect hp numbers. For the most part, Dynojets are pretty consistent from dyno to dyno. Dynopack numbers will vary both by the settings used and by the fact that there is no rolling resistance that any other dyno has. The amount of rolling resistance there is when a 800hp car is on a dynojet is HUGE. We have to run a lot of straps, very sticky tires, very low tire pressure, etc. All that stuff sucks up hp, and that doesn't happen on a dynopack. So, all settings being right on a Dynopack, on a 700hp car it will read at least 30-50hp off from not having the rolling resistance. So give or take, 650whp on a dynojet = 700ish hp on a Dynopack. Again, assuming the parameters are setup correctly on the Dynopack. If you're off by just a little on the gear ratio it can have serious affects on HP and RPM data.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You know Tony1, I once believed that as well, and I PURPOSELY purchased a Dynapack because I wanted to see higher than average numbers. People are quoting Dynapack numbers vs Dynojets, etc.. I might as well have a happy customer that got the numbers they wanted.
Turns out that my new current model Dynapack Evolution 4000 reads LOWER than all the local Dynojets. It was a 10% consistently lower reading on the Dynapack vs Dynojets, and I have several tuners that use my dyno to tune all sorts of cars to confirm this.
Just from my personal cars, my Integra made 380 WHP on a Dynojet, and with nothing touched, it made 340-345 WHP on my Dynapack. I also had several Supras ranging in 550-700 WHP doing the same, with my Dyno reading 10% lower each and every time. On a 650 WHP Dynojet Supra, that was a whopping 65 WHP gone when it came onto my dyno and made between 580-590.
I don't even know where to start this argument, but somehow the newer Dynapacks have done some "adjusting" to try to make it read about the same as most chassis dyno. I bet they overdid the corrections and I ended up with a dyno that reads lower now. Oh man, you wouldn't believe the crap I go through trying to educate my customers about how my dyno reads lower than local dynojets... But almost everyone have believed that the "typical" Dynapack reads higher
What a shitty situation. Right now I am trying to find a way to make the Dyno read "normally", but the gear ratios don't change the HP/TQ (only alters the HP/TQ crossover), and nothing seem to really change the numbers at all (maybe a few HP). Longer ramp times vs faster ramp times don't do much either except for changing boost curves and making torque come earlier/later. Obviously a 4 sec ramp time on a GT42R Honda will never make full boost with such a short pull, etc... But there is no way to affect peak numbers at all with the newer software... 
There is no average difference because there are too many settings on the dynopack that can affect hp numbers. For the most part, Dynojets are pretty consistent from dyno to dyno. Dynopack numbers will vary both by the settings used and by the fact that there is no rolling resistance that any other dyno has. The amount of rolling resistance there is when a 800hp car is on a dynojet is HUGE. We have to run a lot of straps, very sticky tires, very low tire pressure, etc. All that stuff sucks up hp, and that doesn't happen on a dynopack. So, all settings being right on a Dynopack, on a 700hp car it will read at least 30-50hp off from not having the rolling resistance. So give or take, 650whp on a dynojet = 700ish hp on a Dynopack. Again, assuming the parameters are setup correctly on the Dynopack. If you're off by just a little on the gear ratio it can have serious affects on HP and RPM data.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You know Tony1, I once believed that as well, and I PURPOSELY purchased a Dynapack because I wanted to see higher than average numbers. People are quoting Dynapack numbers vs Dynojets, etc.. I might as well have a happy customer that got the numbers they wanted.
Turns out that my new current model Dynapack Evolution 4000 reads LOWER than all the local Dynojets. It was a 10% consistently lower reading on the Dynapack vs Dynojets, and I have several tuners that use my dyno to tune all sorts of cars to confirm this.
Just from my personal cars, my Integra made 380 WHP on a Dynojet, and with nothing touched, it made 340-345 WHP on my Dynapack. I also had several Supras ranging in 550-700 WHP doing the same, with my Dyno reading 10% lower each and every time. On a 650 WHP Dynojet Supra, that was a whopping 65 WHP gone when it came onto my dyno and made between 580-590.
I don't even know where to start this argument, but somehow the newer Dynapacks have done some "adjusting" to try to make it read about the same as most chassis dyno. I bet they overdid the corrections and I ended up with a dyno that reads lower now. Oh man, you wouldn't believe the crap I go through trying to educate my customers about how my dyno reads lower than local dynojets... But almost everyone have believed that the "typical" Dynapack reads higher
What a shitty situation. Right now I am trying to find a way to make the Dyno read "normally", but the gear ratios don't change the HP/TQ (only alters the HP/TQ crossover), and nothing seem to really change the numbers at all (maybe a few HP). Longer ramp times vs faster ramp times don't do much either except for changing boost curves and making torque come earlier/later. Obviously a 4 sec ramp time on a GT42R Honda will never make full boost with such a short pull, etc... But there is no way to affect peak numbers at all with the newer software...
09-09-2007, 05:15 AM
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Re: (JamesG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JamesG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All that power through a 3" downpipe...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I made 654 dynojet hp on a 2.5 inch downpipe that went halfway to the back of the car and full exhaust. despite the hype behind 4 inch downpipes I havent seen them do much
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I made 654 dynojet hp on a 2.5 inch downpipe that went halfway to the back of the car and full exhaust. despite the hype behind 4 inch downpipes I havent seen them do much
09-09-2007, 06:18 AM
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Re: (Tony the Tiger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You know Tony1, I once believed that as well, and I PURPOSELY purchased a Dynapack because I wanted to see higher than average numbers. People are quoting Dynapack numbers vs Dynojets, etc.. I might as well have a happy customer that got the numbers they wanted. </TD></TR></TABLE>
wow that really hurts!
You know Tony1, I once believed that as well, and I PURPOSELY purchased a Dynapack because I wanted to see higher than average numbers. People are quoting Dynapack numbers vs Dynojets, etc.. I might as well have a happy customer that got the numbers they wanted. </TD></TR></TABLE>
wow that really hurts!
09-09-2007, 08:23 AM
#40
Re: (Tony the Tiger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You know Tony1, I once believed that as well, and I PURPOSELY purchased a Dynapack because I wanted to see higher than average numbers. People are quoting Dynapack numbers vs Dynojets, etc.. I might as well have a happy customer that got the numbers they wanted.
Turns out that my new current model Dynapack Evolution 4000 reads LOWER than all the local Dynojets. It was a 10% consistently lower reading on the Dynapack vs Dynojets, and I have several tuners that use my dyno to tune all sorts of cars to confirm this.
Just from my personal cars, my Integra made 380 WHP on a Dynojet, and with nothing touched, it made 340-345 WHP on my Dynapack. I also had several Supras ranging in 550-700 WHP doing the same, with my Dyno reading 10% lower each and every time. On a 650 WHP Dynojet Supra, that was a whopping 65 WHP gone when it came onto my dyno and made between 580-590.
I don't even know where to start this argument, but somehow the newer Dynapacks have done some "adjusting" to try to make it read about the same as most chassis dyno. I bet they overdid the corrections and I ended up with a dyno that reads lower now. Oh man, you wouldn't believe the crap I go through trying to educate my customers about how my dyno reads lower than local dynojets... But almost everyone have believed that the "typical" Dynapack reads higher What a shitty situation. Right now I am trying to find a way to make the Dyno read "normally", but the gear ratios don't change the HP/TQ (only alters the HP/TQ crossover), and nothing seem to really change the numbers at all (maybe a few HP). Longer ramp times vs faster ramp times don't do much either except for changing boost curves and making torque come earlier/later. Obviously a 4 sec ramp time on a GT42R Honda will never make full boost with such a short pull, etc... But there is no way to affect peak numbers at all with the newer software... </TD></TR></TABLE>
this is exactly what I've seen fro the dynapack that used to be in town. It read a least 10% lower than all the dynojets we had in town. Maybe it was just little knowledge about correction factor settings? This machine was purchase in 2000 and disappeared with the shop in about 2002 or 2003 so I wouldn't say it's just the new machines.
You know Tony1, I once believed that as well, and I PURPOSELY purchased a Dynapack because I wanted to see higher than average numbers. People are quoting Dynapack numbers vs Dynojets, etc.. I might as well have a happy customer that got the numbers they wanted.
Turns out that my new current model Dynapack Evolution 4000 reads LOWER than all the local Dynojets. It was a 10% consistently lower reading on the Dynapack vs Dynojets, and I have several tuners that use my dyno to tune all sorts of cars to confirm this.
Just from my personal cars, my Integra made 380 WHP on a Dynojet, and with nothing touched, it made 340-345 WHP on my Dynapack. I also had several Supras ranging in 550-700 WHP doing the same, with my Dyno reading 10% lower each and every time. On a 650 WHP Dynojet Supra, that was a whopping 65 WHP gone when it came onto my dyno and made between 580-590.
I don't even know where to start this argument, but somehow the newer Dynapacks have done some "adjusting" to try to make it read about the same as most chassis dyno. I bet they overdid the corrections and I ended up with a dyno that reads lower now. Oh man, you wouldn't believe the crap I go through trying to educate my customers about how my dyno reads lower than local dynojets... But almost everyone have believed that the "typical" Dynapack reads higher
What a shitty situation. Right now I am trying to find a way to make the Dyno read "normally", but the gear ratios don't change the HP/TQ (only alters the HP/TQ crossover), and nothing seem to really change the numbers at all (maybe a few HP). Longer ramp times vs faster ramp times don't do much either except for changing boost curves and making torque come earlier/later. Obviously a 4 sec ramp time on a GT42R Honda will never make full boost with such a short pull, etc... But there is no way to affect peak numbers at all with the newer software... </TD></TR></TABLE>this is exactly what I've seen fro the dynapack that used to be in town. It read a least 10% lower than all the dynojets we had in town. Maybe it was just little knowledge about correction factor settings? This machine was purchase in 2000 and disappeared with the shop in about 2002 or 2003 so I wouldn't say it's just the new machines.
09-09-2007, 08:47 AM
#41
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Re: (paulzy)
I think we can at least all agree that we've seen pretty varying numbers from Dynapacks, whatever the reason, and nobody can deny the difference in rolling resistance there is with a big power car that has to be on drag radials or slicks with a lot of straps on a dynojet.
09-09-2007, 08:06 PM
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Re: (WHTZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WHTZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
wow that really hurts! </TD></TR></TABLE>
Too many customers walking in here looking for numbers.. Even when they get a good 1/4mile ET and trap speed, they still want to see the numbers. Usually I just tell them to go to a nearby Mustang dyno that reads all over the place.
wow that really hurts!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Too many customers walking in here looking for numbers.. Even when they get a good 1/4mile ET and trap speed, they still want to see the numbers. Usually I just tell them to go to a nearby Mustang dyno that reads all over the place.
09-09-2007, 08:16 PM
#43
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Re: (paulzy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by paulzy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
this is exactly what I've seen fro the dynapack that used to be in town. It read a least 10% lower than all the dynojets we had in town. Maybe it was just little knowledge about correction factor settings? This machine was purchase in 2000 and disappeared with the shop in about 2002 or 2003 so I wouldn't say it's just the new machines.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There isn't much to play with on the Dynapack at all that can change final numbers... The main and only adjustable correction setting is always at 1.0.. I wouldn't want to manipulate the main correction factor because every Dynapack plot I've seen on the web have it on 1.00. So the only variables left are gear ratios, ramp time, temp/humidity. Gear ratios doesn't change the peak numbers and only affects the RPM plotting. It means that if I entered the wrong gear ratios, the point which HP and TQ intercepts just gets shifted higher or lower. Overall numbers and power curve barely changes (< 1%). For ramp time, longer ramp times are better for larger turbo cars and gets them spooling sooner, but peak power and TQ remains unchanged.
The only thing I must say is that the Dynapack is super consistent, meaning that I can do fine changes with fuel and timing and it does an excellent job showing those differences at all RPM ranges. It can fine tune RPM ranges, so I get insane resolution of how an engine runs between ie: 5000-6000RPM, and get the car fine tuned really well. Well, like everyone says, the Dynapack is a tuner's dyno and like all dynos, there are no dynos on earth that reads "consistent" at all especially across the country. Even the local Dynojets here are having +/- 10% variances and they are the same brand and model. Just from different locations, shop environment, etc.. can skew everything up.
But it sucks when not everyone is informed and like to compare numbers... I guess it's Time to stock up some race gas so anyone that comes in here, i am just going to chug in some race gas and max out their turbo... and then tell them to get a bigger one if they want more power
this is exactly what I've seen fro the dynapack that used to be in town. It read a least 10% lower than all the dynojets we had in town. Maybe it was just little knowledge about correction factor settings? This machine was purchase in 2000 and disappeared with the shop in about 2002 or 2003 so I wouldn't say it's just the new machines.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There isn't much to play with on the Dynapack at all that can change final numbers... The main and only adjustable correction setting is always at 1.0.. I wouldn't want to manipulate the main correction factor because every Dynapack plot I've seen on the web have it on 1.00. So the only variables left are gear ratios, ramp time, temp/humidity. Gear ratios doesn't change the peak numbers and only affects the RPM plotting. It means that if I entered the wrong gear ratios, the point which HP and TQ intercepts just gets shifted higher or lower. Overall numbers and power curve barely changes (< 1%). For ramp time, longer ramp times are better for larger turbo cars and gets them spooling sooner, but peak power and TQ remains unchanged.
The only thing I must say is that the Dynapack is super consistent, meaning that I can do fine changes with fuel and timing and it does an excellent job showing those differences at all RPM ranges. It can fine tune RPM ranges, so I get insane resolution of how an engine runs between ie: 5000-6000RPM, and get the car fine tuned really well. Well, like everyone says, the Dynapack is a tuner's dyno and like all dynos, there are no dynos on earth that reads "consistent" at all especially across the country. Even the local Dynojets here are having +/- 10% variances and they are the same brand and model. Just from different locations, shop environment, etc.. can skew everything up.
But it sucks when not everyone is informed and like to compare numbers... I guess it's Time to stock up some race gas so anyone that comes in here, i am just going to chug in some race gas and max out their turbo... and then tell them to get a bigger one if they want more power
09-10-2007, 05:38 AM
#44
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Re: (Tony the Tiger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Gear ratios doesn't change the peak numbers and only affects the RPM plotting. It means that if I entered the wrong gear ratios, the point which HP and TQ intercepts just gets shifted higher or lower. Overall numbers and power curve barely changes (< 1%). </TD></TR></TABLE>
How is that, if the dyno reads torque and calculates HP from it's RPM input.
2200tq at 8k / 4.40 = 500 x 8000 / 5252 = 761.61 hp
2200tq at 7.5k / 4.40 = 500 x 7500 / 5252 = 714.01 hp
that's 50hp from being 500rpms off, right?
Gear ratios doesn't change the peak numbers and only affects the RPM plotting. It means that if I entered the wrong gear ratios, the point which HP and TQ intercepts just gets shifted higher or lower. Overall numbers and power curve barely changes (< 1%). </TD></TR></TABLE>
How is that, if the dyno reads torque and calculates HP from it's RPM input.
2200tq at 8k / 4.40 = 500 x 8000 / 5252 = 761.61 hp
2200tq at 7.5k / 4.40 = 500 x 7500 / 5252 = 714.01 hp
that's 50hp from being 500rpms off, right?
09-13-2007, 10:19 PM
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Re: (tony1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How is that, if the dyno reads torque and calculates HP from it's RPM input.
2200tq at 8k / 4.40 = 500 x 8000 / 5252 = 761.61 hp
2200tq at 7.5k / 4.40 = 500 x 7500 / 5252 = 714.01 hp
that's 50hp from being 500rpms off, right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
EDIT: I am doing more testing now...lol I will update you guys on what I can do with the newer software
How is that, if the dyno reads torque and calculates HP from it's RPM input.
2200tq at 8k / 4.40 = 500 x 8000 / 5252 = 761.61 hp
2200tq at 7.5k / 4.40 = 500 x 7500 / 5252 = 714.01 hp
that's 50hp from being 500rpms off, right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
EDIT: I am doing more testing now...lol I will update you guys on what I can do with the newer software
09-20-2007, 08:46 AM
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Re: (tony1)
what size waste gate would you guys recomend for a turbo this size?
and can any one recomend somewhere or someone to buy a 4094r at a decent price?
and can any one recomend somewhere or someone to buy a 4094r at a decent price?