500whp and a street tune?
11-10-2015, 08:02 PM
#26
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Re: 500whp and a street tune?
I don't mind street tuning if it calls for it.. I just make sure the car was street driven previously with good working suspension, tires and brakes. I don't street tune cars if it was a fresh build and wasn't street driven regularly.
For FWD or AWD, I usually ride the brakes in 1st or 2nd gear, and if the car's brakes can hold up, it gives me enough load to actually tune the car 80-90%, without needing to go past 50 mph or leaving the small roads. If the brakes can hold, you can easily get full boost at any RPM at which the turbo can spool, and it will be tuned for all possible road conditions really.
Once I get all the tables dialed in, I really only do a few pulls, gear to gear, to verify the results, sometimes none depending on situation. The car doesn't really need to hook, as long as the car has enough braking to simulate load.
For FWD or AWD, I usually ride the brakes in 1st or 2nd gear, and if the car's brakes can hold up, it gives me enough load to actually tune the car 80-90%, without needing to go past 50 mph or leaving the small roads. If the brakes can hold, you can easily get full boost at any RPM at which the turbo can spool, and it will be tuned for all possible road conditions really.
Once I get all the tables dialed in, I really only do a few pulls, gear to gear, to verify the results, sometimes none depending on situation. The car doesn't really need to hook, as long as the car has enough braking to simulate load.
11-11-2015, 12:58 PM
#28
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Re: 500whp and a street tune?
Yea I've actually never thought of that for tuning purposes. Makes sense since loading te drivetrain is basically the same as doing pulls (to a point). I would imagine some slight cleanup is required when doing an actual "pull"
11-12-2015, 05:29 PM
#29
Honda-Tech Member
Re: 500whp and a street tune?
I don't mind street tuning if it calls for it.. I just make sure the car was street driven previously with good working suspension, tires and brakes. I don't street tune cars if it was a fresh build and wasn't street driven regularly.
For FWD or AWD, I usually ride the brakes in 1st or 2nd gear, and if the car's brakes can hold up, it gives me enough load to actually tune the car 80-90%, without needing to go past 50 mph or leaving the small roads. If the brakes can hold, you can easily get full boost at any RPM at which the turbo can spool, and it will be tuned for all possible road conditions really.
Once I get all the tables dialed in, I really only do a few pulls, gear to gear, to verify the results, sometimes none depending on situation. The car doesn't really need to hook, as long as the car has enough braking to simulate load.
For FWD or AWD, I usually ride the brakes in 1st or 2nd gear, and if the car's brakes can hold up, it gives me enough load to actually tune the car 80-90%, without needing to go past 50 mph or leaving the small roads. If the brakes can hold, you can easily get full boost at any RPM at which the turbo can spool, and it will be tuned for all possible road conditions really.
Once I get all the tables dialed in, I really only do a few pulls, gear to gear, to verify the results, sometimes none depending on situation. The car doesn't really need to hook, as long as the car has enough braking to simulate load.
You just solved my problem, in a beautifully simple way to boot. I was just like 'why didn't I think of that'
Stay awesome
(love that turbo tl build btw)
11-13-2015, 06:37 AM
#31
DO IT ON ALL FOURS
11-13-2015, 07:20 AM
#34
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
11-14-2015, 08:42 AM
#37
Honda-Tech Member
11-16-2015, 04:30 AM
#38
Honda-Tech Member
11-16-2015, 09:40 AM
#41
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
11-16-2015, 10:28 AM
#43
DO IT ON ALL FOURS
Re: 500whp and a street tune?
https://honda-tech.com/forced-induct.../#post50612051
No, it's not a 1:1 ratio at all, and again, it literally does not matter what gear the car is tested in on a DynaPack; provided you do not reach the actual torque limit of the machine (2000, 3000, 4000nM, etc), it will divide the actual torque applied to the machine by the drive ratio and spit out the same number.
I can literally dyno in 2nd gear or 6th gear on most low power cars and get the same exact number.
The old-school "1:1" mantra works on interial machines, where changing test gear changes the numbers significantly. On our Mustang MD-150, testing between a numerically higher and lower gear results in different power figures, which is pretty stupid if you ask me.
I can literally dyno in 2nd gear or 6th gear on most low power cars and get the same exact number.
The old-school "1:1" mantra works on interial machines, where changing test gear changes the numbers significantly. On our Mustang MD-150, testing between a numerically higher and lower gear results in different power figures, which is pretty stupid if you ask me.
11-16-2015, 10:31 AM
#44
Re: 500whp and a street tune?
Yes. I already discussed that with him.. Dark_teg is simply going by his observational experience. D-Rob may have a valid point of contention, but the tuners that many of us utilize still use the "old mantra"..
So, whether or not one wants to take the time to theoretically and mathematically go over it all should be left up to the Random Chat thread. otherwise, it just becomes redundant for no reason than to just have one.
I guess if I were Dark_teg, I wouldn't take his thread into that direction.
So, whether or not one wants to take the time to theoretically and mathematically go over it all should be left up to the Random Chat thread. otherwise, it just becomes redundant for no reason than to just have one.
I guess if I were Dark_teg, I wouldn't take his thread into that direction.
11-16-2015, 10:54 AM
#45
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: 500whp and a street tune?
Anytime I can learn something its a good thing. The dyno I am going to in December is a Mustang Dyno MD AWD500DE.
11-16-2015, 11:51 AM
#46
Re: 500whp and a street tune?
For your tuner for him/her, It's akin to being around an annoying 12 year old that has social studies class and has memorized a lot of unnecessary factoids: It's cute to be given this random information by him..At First.. But after a while, it just makes you annoyed that he's even around, and you just want him to buzz off.
Let the tuner do his work, if you trust him.
11-16-2015, 03:48 PM
#47
DO IT ON ALL FOURS
Re: 500whp and a street tune?
For your tuner for him/her, It's akin to being around an annoying 12 year old that has social studies class and has memorized a lot of unnecessary factoids: It's cute to be given this random information by him..At First.. But after a while, it just makes you annoyed that he's even around, and you just want him to buzz off.
11-17-2015, 06:56 AM
#49
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Re: 500whp and a street tune?
The brake boosting method is great IMO, and I got good enough with my left foot braking that I can hold the engine in 1st or 2nd gear right at the tip of redline smoothly, and controlled enough for me to do cell-by-cell tuning and map trace if needed 
It's actually not hard on the brakes. Preliminary tuning only requires 1st gear brake-loading, the car is going pretty slow and the brakes barely heat up.
Once most of the tuning regions is done in 1st gear, the maps at this point should be about 70-80% tuned anyway. From here, there is really no need to hold the brakes in 2nd gear for any significant amount of time.
Once I get into 3rd gear tuning, It would be tuning for boost spiking / aggressive spool up regions for larger turbo cars or cars with non-optimal wastegate setups. I would rarely do a full 3rd gear rip up to full speed because its not necessary. It will be brake-loading blasts in 3rd, from like 4000-4500RPM and brake boosting, so it really loads up the engine and you can get all he tuning done with no worries and keeping speeds low. You can stay in it and hold the car, well enough to accurately log WGDC and have it fully settled for accurate boost tuning.
I try not to brake boost for big power RWD cars though, unless it has a very good tire on the back. Brake boosting aggressively from a roll would eventually become a rolling burnout.
Funny story, I've tried left foot braking on my Supra because I really wanted to get an accurate tune for my 6th gear pulls or at least the most possible load simulating a top speed run and aero drag limited.
Instead of actually doing a 6th gear top speed pull, I've decided to do a 4th gear brake boost run.
I was nervous in doing high load/long sustained pulls on my dyno at 1300+ WHP because I don't have enough fans to sustain this kind of power and keep the temps under control.. I technically need a dyno cell with a 140+ mph fan setup to safely do it...
So I ended up brake boosting at 4th gear at 140 mph and held it at 8000-8500RPM simulating a top speed pull. At that particular moment, I had probably pulled more angle than Orido's Ridox Supra at D1...
Although I still think it was safer than doing a 235+ mph top speed pull at 5AM in the morning...LOL
It's actually not hard on the brakes. Preliminary tuning only requires 1st gear brake-loading, the car is going pretty slow and the brakes barely heat up.
Once most of the tuning regions is done in 1st gear, the maps at this point should be about 70-80% tuned anyway. From here, there is really no need to hold the brakes in 2nd gear for any significant amount of time.
Once I get into 3rd gear tuning, It would be tuning for boost spiking / aggressive spool up regions for larger turbo cars or cars with non-optimal wastegate setups. I would rarely do a full 3rd gear rip up to full speed because its not necessary. It will be brake-loading blasts in 3rd, from like 4000-4500RPM and brake boosting, so it really loads up the engine and you can get all he tuning done with no worries and keeping speeds low. You can stay in it and hold the car, well enough to accurately log WGDC and have it fully settled for accurate boost tuning.
I try not to brake boost for big power RWD cars though, unless it has a very good tire on the back. Brake boosting aggressively from a roll would eventually become a rolling burnout.
Funny story, I've tried left foot braking on my Supra because I really wanted to get an accurate tune for my 6th gear pulls or at least the most possible load simulating a top speed run and aero drag limited.
Instead of actually doing a 6th gear top speed pull, I've decided to do a 4th gear brake boost run.
I was nervous in doing high load/long sustained pulls on my dyno at 1300+ WHP because I don't have enough fans to sustain this kind of power and keep the temps under control.. I technically need a dyno cell with a 140+ mph fan setup to safely do it...
So I ended up brake boosting at 4th gear at 140 mph and held it at 8000-8500RPM simulating a top speed pull. At that particular moment, I had probably pulled more angle than Orido's Ridox Supra at D1...
Although I still think it was safer than doing a 235+ mph top speed pull at 5AM in the morning...LOL
11-17-2015, 10:29 AM
#50
Re: 500whp and a street tune?
So I ended up brake boosting at 4th gear at 140 mph and held it at 8000-8500RPM simulating a top speed pull. At that particular moment, I had probably pulled more angle than Orido's Ridox Supra at D1...
Although I still think it was safer than doing a 235+ mph top speed pull at 5AM in the morning...LOL
Although I still think it was safer than doing a 235+ mph top speed pull at 5AM in the morning...LOL
I dunno, Tony. Highway 400 between Vaughn and Kettleby is pretty good for the late night / early bird stuff. Yoshio has had me drive that several times during his street tunes..
No O.P.P., and no planes to track KMH during those times... I can easily avoid the Constable