mrbsponge

was wondering why with all the cam test and turbo test, that we havent had some of americas best tuners do a tune off.

have the longblock assembled by the same company, use the management of choice by the tuner, or an agreed upon management.

all using the same items as far and engine parts, and lets see what kind of different numbers we can produce?

what do you guys think?

no flaming please

DragSource

<---- Thinks that would be a good thread (but expensive)

<---- Loans mrbsponge his extra flamesuit.

b16hybridsol

no reason for flaming this, its a good idea. I've always noticed some of the people that post on here are like oh _____ did it again, anoter 500 or 600whp car. But if you are only tuning and posting up the fully built motors that are can easily make that kind of power, then is that person really that great of a tuner? I give the respect to the tuners that make the high hp stock/mild built motors that last and don't have all top of the line stuff on them

Phil Koury

I know a few tuners who post almost all of their graphs, unless they are asked not to, which occurs from time to time.

mrbsponge

what i would really like to see is all the same bottom ends built by the same place.

all stock honda head, a mutually agreed manifold.

same turbo, mani, and DP.

and of course the same gas.


and see what happens, whether it be AEM, Hondata, neptune, whatever.

i would just love to see what the outcome is

GOTXQSS

If the motors were used all had the same parts but the tuners assembled them on their own couldnt someone do a little more work to their motor then the other person? super sleeky head job or something? hard to control the overall fairness?


could it be done where there is 1 motor on a dyno the ecu is the same and has a base map loaded. this base map would be restarted for each tuner. Tuner would then get to the dyno do any pre run checking he needs to do then get his *** tuning.


base the performance on:

overall tq/hp
area under the curve
speed of the tune
smoothness/part throttle ect
ect ect ect


Then everyone starts at the same level/ and its up to the tuner to go till he is satisfied with the result and then everything added up and averaged out?

hey its an idea.... makes it fair and really shows how well they can make **** right and how fast as well.

b16hybridsol

why not use the same motor and not tell each other the results till its done

SEFIxCivic

sounds like a great test.

i do agree to an extent that tuning a fully built motor can be easier, but when it comes to tuning really high hp cars there are another set of issues that arise that you'd only know if you've tuned high hp cars before.

i do think that pushing a mild set up or even stock motor on pump gas requires a lot of skill.

in my opinion it would be hard to find a tuner that be willing to push their customers engine built or stock to the limit.

i like to size my turbos a little larger than they need be, so i can tune the engine conservative. this may leave a few ponies untapped, but size your turbo the way i do and you're still making big numbers. even if you have the most horsepower, you can't win a race if you can't finish it.

i think that type of judgement is partly what makes a good tuner, not necessarily if he can squeeze every last horse out of your engine.

i mean the majority of us aren't racing professionally. and even the ones that race competively aren't in it for money. i want my customers to enjoy their motors as long as possible.

mrbsponge

true on the motors i was thinking something along the lines of

a professional company build the blocks all at one time, and make all of them the same.

say something like a 9:1 gsr motor, or something.

and i think it would all need to be on the same dyno as well to rule out any differences in dynos, just do it all at the same place.

sorta like what omniman did with the B16 buildup, just with a turbo car, some tuners and some pump gas!


would be interesting, but i dont think ANY companies would be interested in droppin money like that.

i mean the companies could keep the motors after the tests or auction them off, or sell em'

i would like to see what a tuner WOULD do when the motor really isnt any specific customers!

Luke J

This would be interesting...........

Someone donate alot of money!

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

This is impossible.

To be fair it would have to be on the same exact motor. Even stock Honda motors that use the same parts and are within tight clearances make different power using the same tune (ecu). Extremely minor differences like break-in or current weather will affect output.

And if they tuned on the same motor, the first tuner would push it as far as he could (read: blow it up).

This is why you dont see such a comparison.

mrbsponge

i do see where you are coming from

but it would be cool to have seen something like this though

Mad Cow

Well, what would you base your results on? Tuning isn't about making the most horsepower or torque, but rather making the most while still being reliable. There are too many factors that come into play to put one tuner against another. Air temp and dyno brand/type/settings come to mind.

Reliability is always a factor, but you would see tuners pushing the motor beyond its safe limit in order to prove themselves to be the best. Ignition timing would end up way past where it should, and chances are that the first person to use the motor would have the advantage as the longer it goes down the line the more likely it is to die.

Benjithx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mad Cow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, what would you base your results on? Tuning isn't about making the most horsepower or torque, but rather making the most while still being reliable. There are too many factors that come into play to put one tuner against another. Air temp and dyno brand/type/settings come to mind.

Reliability is always a factor, but you would see tuners pushing the motor beyond its safe limit in order to prove themselves to be the best. Ignition timing would end up way past where it should, and chances are that the first person to use the motor would have the advantage as the longer it goes down the line the more likely it is to die.</TD></TR></TABLE>

True

It would have to be index'd.

have them all make a set hp # with the same setup that kinda pushes the limit a of a stock block because that is where great tuning is needed. Then run the engines until they start to pop. last one standing is the man on top

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

I didn't read the whole thread, but I just wanna say there is ALOT more to tuning then just making horsepower. How about how long the engine lasts? How is the transient response on the engine? How will the engine perform under real world load vs. load on the dyno? How does it idle? Theres alot of things that "tuners" dont even do because they know they can knock a car out in an hour and a half, put up some #'s and the customer won't care that the car idles like **** and burns a tank up in 175 miles cause it's a "high performance machine." Sorry for the venting but you can't judge a tuner on dyno #'s.

HRTuning

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry for the venting but you can't judge a tuner on dyno #'s.</TD></TR></TABLE>



Obviously a tuner that aims for reliable power would lose in this scenario and the tuners that just aim for peak power whether it's reliable or not would win whether...

sporkcrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is impossible.

To be fair it would have to be on the same exact motor. Even stock Honda motors that use the same parts and are within tight clearances make different power using the same tune (ecu). Extremely minor differences like break-in or current weather will affect output.

And if they tuned on the same motor, the first tuner would push it as far as he could (read: blow it up).

This is why you dont see such a comparison.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's exactly what I was going to say. Well said

PrecisionH23a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry for the venting but you can't judge a tuner on dyno #'s.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ask any racer... any true racer... and they'll tell you it doesnt matter if you win by 1 hp or 1000hp...

Wait, I forgot where i was going with that one.

Darin D.

What would the goal of this competition be? Just to see who could make the most power without grenading the engine? It would be interesting to do but you would have to have seperate identical engines for each person and conditions would have to be the same...testing on an engine dyno would be the best way to do it. So this would get pretty expensive..

but i'm down if someone wants to put up the money to do it

Or how about we just see who's engine lasts the longest and goes the fastest in turbo 4/SFWD this season...since a lot of us tune cars that will be running those classes

Mase

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Darin D. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Or how about we just see who's engine lasts the longest and goes the fastest in turbo 4/SFWD this season...since a lot of us tune cars that will be running those classes
</TD></TR></TABLE>


thats a good idea darin, but $$$ spent comes into play, it would be pretty sweet to set a cap on $$ spent on setups and see who could come out the most hp and best et.

Darin D.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


thats a good idea darin, but $$$ spent comes into play, it would be pretty sweet to set a cap on $$ spent on setups and see who could come out the most hp and best et.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

haha yea...too bad nobody would want to waste their money on a test like that though.

Mase

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Darin D. &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

haha yea...too bad nobody would want to waste their money on a test like that though.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

maybe if we targeted some rich ***** that have nothing better to do, instead of broke and cheap *** honda owners, haha

PS. we should hit that idea up to speed channel, it would make a great show, heh...5 teams, all over the US....and two compeititons, weighted individual and then over all - HP and ET....

SEFIxCivic

that's a t.v. show i'd watch

Arturbo

I don't think this "tune off" proves anything. I don't understand why people are so concerned with getting a high #. So many other variables to look at that will never prove who is a good tuner.

m R g S r

Hey, I'll let my car be the test car (If you guys pay for the motor, even thou I already have a built one haha)