ivan93egreppin210

my head is about to explode from all the reading i've done. im about to put my gsr head on my b20z2. i have a p28 thats unchipped. i've never chipped an ecu but i have a great article in one of my old hondatuning mags. (july 05). it's a great read. i should be able to socket my ecu on my own. im just curious to know what are a few things i should avoid as far as first time tuning. i dont want to gernade my motor trying to learn.

it would be 1000x easier to take my car to a tuner but whats the fun in that. if he can learn to tune, so can i and i will. im realy intrested to hear first hand from the guys that helped pave the way for tuners. guys like dave blundell, jon cui, craig moates..... i will read the old pgmfi wiki again for the 1000th time. thanks.

Tomdata

I don't know if I would consider myself to be a "top tuner". but my first advice to any newbie is.....
don't forget to remove the checksum

steveo135

in for some good advice

taggart_lumpy

also interested to hear what people have to say

pb16b

considering you checked everything, including going over your map, values good and conservative, first pull, watch everything closely, get ready to let off. make small changes. after experience, you'll know where you can make bigger changes because you'll know how far off you are and need to be. in addition to small changes, don't make too many changes. this way you'll know for sure what changes you are making is what you want and actually making a difference.

ivan93egreppin210

well that makes sense. im really intrested to hear from all tuners, not just "top" tuners. please tell about some of your early failiers and what you learned in the proccess. thanks to all who replied.

jksmith

bump thinking about tuning my own car as well!

ivan93egreppin210

im very suprised. i thought the tuners in here would be more willing to share past tuning foul ups in order to help us learn. i hope more tuners chime in.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

Well here are a few things that you need to at least be aware of before you start tuning.

Don't always trust the wideband. Like any electrical component they can go bad, especially after a good amount of use. Use it as 1 tool in your tuning routine. Check the plugs a few times during the tuning session to make sure you are on the right track.

If you are tuning a boosted car ALWAYS set a boost cut. You never know when a vac line might pop off that is feeding the wastegate and this could save your motor.

Always run the proper sized map sensor so you can set a boost cut! Don't try maxing out the sensor this is just asking for trouble.

And always sync the ignition timing before you start tuning. Most programs has a ignition lock feature which allows you to have the timing value locked to one value and not change. The set the engine ignition timing to this value and then all the values in your table will match what the engine will see before any additional advance.

maddog20

good info!

When you have a suspect WBO2 Sensor. Besides not working at all..what symptoms do you see? Do the readings become progessively leaner over time or something like that?

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

They will progressively go one way or the other. In my experience atleast it has always been to the lean side. And when you add fuel it is pretty obvious the car is running too rich. One quick plug read will confirm it most of the time.

ivan93egreppin210

great info? anyone else care to chime in?

TurboChurch

Dont trust anything the owner says about the car until you verify it for yourself. And if you are tuning other peoples car's then you had better verify things with your own eyes.

Read the plugs often and read on the internet on how to do this correctly. Do it a few times during the run to make sure you are on target.

A dyno can save you alot of time and well worth the hassle of getting to a load bearing dyno. Its not all about a WHP number, its about having a safe reliable tune at the end of the day.

Carry a spare WB02 sensor with you and a set of plugs for the car you are tuning. Fresh plugs are a must!

Bring tools with you, it just saves time, and it almost always comes up that you need to tighten something or adjust something. The usual 10mm, 12mm, 14mm.

Not a top tuner by any means!

ivan93egreppin210

i shouldnt have put "top tuners" in the title. great tips. i noticed noone really wants to talk about past foul ups. maybe tuners are scared it will scare away new customers.lol

locash

Make sure there is enough gas in the car! Spending a few minutes to completely look over a car can save you hours of headaches. On ls/vtec conversions, make absolutely sure that the oil feed line is off of a sandwich adapter, not off the damn oil sending unit port! I have had countless cars like this, and most of them would only have enough oil flow to turn the vtec on for a split second, and then right back off..

ivan93egreppin210

really? didnt realize that. so does the size of the line matter. i have an oil line but the inside dimension is maybe 3/16ths big. i figured this was about the same size the oil pressure sending unit was inside. i have a tee fitting i was going to use that i got at work. ill post pics tomorrow. also should i tune on 89 octane and use 93 after to be on the safe side.

MONSTERek4

this one is cheezy but use a sst chip they are re burnable hahahah and always make sure the knotch on the chip is facing the plugs and never ever do full pulls at first first pull 5k 2nd pull 6k 3rd pull 7k etc u get the point

pb16b

son of a bitch! this happened to me once! never again! good advice.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

Always tune the car on the gas that it will be running.

locash

Definately always tune on the gas you plan to run, good point there.. Also, use a minimum -4an line for the vtec feed, even -6an is fine.. Screw using reburnable chips, use an emulator until you are done. I don't even bother with rewritable chips, I just order a ton of one time writes, and if I ever need to change something, big deal, toss it in the trash.. I more than save a ton of money this way, and it teaches you to double check your work.

ivan93egreppin210

hey locash i notice you're out of arizona. im in san antonio tx where it gets hot. really hot. what tips do you have for tuning in this type of weather?

drewbie57

By no means am I a top tuner, I just talk a lot. Lots of advice I can give to others though...

If you're not fully aware of the basics of tuning (RPM vs MAP, target AFRs, ignition timing) and how all everything comes together, read more before you start tuning your car.

Know your software's features before heading out on to the streets.

Don't tune while driving. Datalog and pull over to make changes.

Even if it's a 10 dollar home depot jobby, ALWAYS use a det can.

Learn what knock/ping sounds like at a low load (part throttle) before tuning for it at higher load (10psi )

Always listen to more experienced tuners than you (if they'll talk to you).

Don't be afraid to pull over the car and go through the tune thoroughly if things aren't making sense.

Always make sure the ostrich is connected (d'oh!).

Always bring out another set of spark plugs (gapped for your application).

Leaner IS NOT MEANER.

Research about which AFRs should be targeted, when, and why.

Research about the relationship between flame speed and AFRs. Flame speed is NOT A CONSTANT!

Research about the relationship between flame speed and fuel octane rating. They don't all burn at the same speeds!

ivan93egreppin210

what do you mean by saying "leaner is not meaner"? also i read that tuning a b20 is tricky. why so and what do i have to avoid in order to avoid cracking my sleeves?

TurboChurch

Leaner meaning leaning out the fuel to 12.5AFR or higher is not always going to net you the best WHP/WTQ. Sometimes a car will like it to be richer than what some commonly say is lean. Plus there is less margin for error with a lean mixture.

B20's are the same as any other engine, it likes what it likes and will tell you when it doesnt on the dyno. Timing/cylinder pressure is what you will need to be carefull of seeing as the B20 has thinner sleeves than the other B series engines. There are 400whp B20 setups with stock sleeves so its not the enigne, its the tuner.

ivan93egreppin210

can someone give me a senerio in which you could crack a b20 sleeve? what conditions do the motor have to be in where your in the danger zone? im talking about an n/a tune.