extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

The one i posted does the correct bore diameter. Its a link to the one that does 3.125-3.750 inch bores

85.5mm = 3.366142 Inch

93sleeperaccord

You running just a stock gasket with o rings or a special gasket? Cause I cannot go to close cause of my Pistons are .017-.020 out of the block or just bigger o rings?

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

Im running Cometic gasket with the oringing i already typed earlier.

.030 deep with .010 protruding

93sleeperaccord

So new stock f22a .050 gasket new stud torqued to 100ftlbs. Regular driving for the last 30-40min was perfect. Did 2 quick pulls to about 18psi and pulled over to check and instantly the cooling system is so over pressureized. The upper hose is twice the size. So again it blew the gasket. Thoughts?

93sleeperaccord

Could it be a block problem? When the shop installed the sleeves years ago? There is probably 8 years on this block

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

More probably non flat block surface if youre surfacing the head. Its highly unlikely the sleeves are moving. Oring it. Trust me.

93sleeperaccord

Well the block is as flat as I can see with our edge. Cannot fit any feeler gauge under it. But my issue with the oring is that my Pistons protrude .020 from the top of the block so I need a thick gasket which I don't think is right. That mean I need like a .070 thick wire?

extralargenog

iTrader: (1)

no.

you dont compensate with the wire.

Get an appropriate gasket thickness (Cometic can accomodate that) but its starting to sound like an interference thing almost... Youve confirmed no contact?

I almost dont believe it. You shouldnt be having this issue for the bore you at.

93sleeperaccord

It does hit with a regular 3 layer mls. Only cause the Pistons protrude. I'm thinking the preivous owner had the deck milled and it seems like a lot. So I'm almost thinking just start fresh with a new block and sleeves and reuse my rods and Pistons ect.. ?

ESP.net

So you built this motor... without complete thought process... I am just trying to understand this.

An H22 has a piston from factory in the hole 6k. F22 appears to have the piston out of hole 2k. F23 appears to have it even.

You have a bigger lift cam delta 272... I am not sure how much bigger it can get on a re grind cam?

Now question I have is the piston made for the F22 or some custom spec one offs? Or your rods one off in a longer height? Or your block was taken down quite a bit.

You have the pistons protruding now 18K higher over stock... So I do easy math without getting too crazy. Add 18K over stock headgasket thickness. Total 44k. Could you fine tune it at even 40k probably...

My last 2 turbo H's I run H23VBT 95mm stroke Darton MIDs... crower H23/F22 rod...with H22 piston. Which has the piston out of hole 20K. I have stock cams Type s/Euro R. I compensate with a 60k thick Cometic MLS headgasket. Yes I could of probably gotten away with a 45k-50k thick headgasket... But my overal compression be higher closer to 10 to 1 then what it is now 9.6-1.

93sleeperaccord

No I never built this engine. This is how it came from the guy I bought it from. I added the turbo manifold springs injectors fuel pump. The other guy before me did all the internal engine work about 8 years ago. No longer can get ahold of the guy to ask the questions I want to ask. Hence the reason I'm asking here. So with my .050 gasket it still blows it out on the block side of the gasket.

93sleeperaccord

I have great thought process just not the guy before me who actually did the engine work.

ESP.net

Please post up your process of what has happened... because seems like I am not understanding first stated used a stock F23 86 honda gasket. Now sounds like you have used a couple different options since?

Gasket type: Thickness (k): What happened:

93sleeperaccord

When I got the car I pulled the head to check things out. It had a gasket from a 98 accord f23 engine. Which is .030 compressed. So I put the same gasket back in. Blew first pull and I reused the studs that were in the car. So took it apart and put a stock gasket from the f22a which is .050 thick compressed. Blew that one on the 2nd pull. Some guys I talked to said studs were stretching. So I went back to the .030 gasket from a f23 and new studs. Blew it again like always but this time there was contact between the head and Pistons. That's when I measured piston protrusion at .020 max. Checked the head again at the machine shop and perfect flat. Had them come check the block for flat and it's flat as can be. So this is when I did the most recent gasket with was aging the .050 but with new studs this time. And blew it the first pull again. It blows it out on the block side. It does not blow between the cylinders but front and back on 1,3,4. That's where I'm sitting right now lol

93sleeperaccord

All mls

ESP.net

Sleeper accord.... thanks for the explanation. I am not a huge F guy but am learning something new today. You are correct F22A uses a 5 layer 46k thick headgasket from the factory. F22B doesnt. Uses 3 layer 30k/.026. F23A is in same boat as F22B.

Ok so all headgaskets used were Cometic MLS...

All MLS headgaskets are 3 layer... so only way your F22A gasket turns from .026/30k to 50k is if you request a custom one at 50k.

As far as bore. You want the headgasket to be exactly 86mm. If using 85.5mm bore/pistons. and would want atleast 40k thick to 50k thick headgasket... find out the specs of the pistons if you want to figure out final compression....

Yes when you were using F23A headgasket/ a .026/30k thick headgaskets... your P2V clearance is getting darn close with a .020 pretruding piston.

It was hard to understand last part. I hope you are not re using head gaskets....

Solution Cometic MLS 50k thick to be safe F22A with an exact headgasket bore of 86mm.


Some people these days depending on sleeves and power levels do copper O ring the cylinders...

However I had used both first Gen Darton MID's and now black newer Darton MID's and have not done this. No issues.

93sleeperaccord

But what I don't get is that I took out a f23gasket from the start. The Original gasket That the guy was driving on with 16psi. So that part throws me off a bit. Do you think I have a problem with the sleeves moving under load? But what you are saying is to call cometic and order a 60k gasket and try it again? I have been thru 4 new gaskets trying to get it to work not reusing them. So it's getting a little expensive. But also been told I need to start fresh with a new block and sleeves ect... I do not want to do that though.

Also if I already tried the stock 46k one would the extra 4K help that much? I hate to keep buying gaskets at that thickness. Like 120$ for just one

ESP.net

Anything over 40k thick should be okay for your setup 46k should be fine.

I don't have any easy answer on this... I would try this one more time and see what happens...

I would hate to see an issue be the sleeves... but it's going that way... MID's are some of the most labor expensive sleeves to be installed. Believe one does mine said about a day and half on the machine with the proper deck plate. I torqued my head studs believe 30,60,90 not sure what F22 is if same.

I am still curious what piston specs you are using.... they are protruding out of hole you say 20k. If these are shelf F22 pistons made to out of hole 2k just like stock... Then someone has buzzed 18k off the deck...

93sleeperaccord

I do know according to posts on the web of his build on this car back in the day he said the block was decked but didn't say how much it was.

ESP.net

I am no master machinist... but to me decking the block that much to raise compression etc doesn't seem normal... why would someone do that? Answer may find out is sleeve sank and had to compensate... You hope it's other way around.

93sleeperaccord

I think I'm going to pull the engine and have the block checked out. If all is good I'm going to mill the Pistons below the deck and oring the block

ESP.net

I think your doing the smart thing... taking the engine out... has to be something up that is no perfectly flat... so needs to be checked by machine shop and very minimal taken off...

Having the pistons out of the hole is not the issue or worry of milling the pistons...I think its not worth the work...and percise work to get them all accurate... just run the right headgasket thickness 45-50k Cometic MLS. Running a bit of boost in upwards of 70-80k thick headgaskets does not scare me or concern me... copper O ringing is just an added insurance from what I have read on very high boost/hp.

Sorry I might of misunderstood before... your piston hit the head? Not the valves...

ESP.net

Food for thought.... you say the block has 85.5mm Wiseco pistons in it. Wiseco seems to of had 526P855R custom piston made for Race Eng. 9-1 comp. With a dome height of -10cc and Comp height of 30.68mm 85.5mm bore . Put that into the calculator with a .050 thick F22a oem headgasket get 9.23-1 compression. With 30k thick headgasket get. 9.69-1 compression.

With this piston it sticks out of hole 7k... so in theory if this is the piston you have with a F22/H23 rod length your deck was shaved 13k roughly...

Now if you take your 13k into mm .33mm subtract oem deck height 219.5mm -.33mm = 219.17mm which with this piston combo obviously leeds to 20K piston protruding.
50k thick OEM F22 gasket is now 9.47-1 compression with OEM 30k thick 9.96-1 compression

93sleeperaccord

Correct the piston hit the head not the valves. With the oem 30k. That's very useful information. So you think those are the Pistons I have

ESP.net

I have no clue what the original owner purchased... could of spent $800 on custom pistons.... or bought one off F22s from Race Eng at $550 who is only one that can sell them it seems... Wiseco wont sell you them. Your going to need the thicker headgasket then to avoid piston to head issues and valve clearance... 45-50k thick.

On the other hand..... your taking the motor out... I would be curious to what exactly is going on and what parts were used in that block.... there is a chance if the piston hit hard enough... your bearings are going to have some wear... re build...re ring if pistons look good...re surface...