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After seeing what happened with the Tial car this weekend, and many cars before this one, Id like to start a discussion about parachute and tether mounting locations. This is not meant to put anyone down or say that anyone is wrong in the way things are done.. but more to bring light to the situation and try to bring our minds together to figure out a solution that we all can use to make the cars safer in the future.
For one, I am no professional. I race as a hobby and have not surpassed the 150mph mark to need a chute. Ive never used one, never set one up. But I am approaching 140mph and will be adding a better cage and chute setup for next year so Id like to get to brain storming and designing now. I may be completly wrong in my assumptions, and Im not one that is scared to learn from people that know more about the subject at hand. So feel free to let me know if Ive over looked something.
Ive noticed alot of the cars out there mount the chute midway up the trunk, but have the tether mounted down in the bumper. With this configuration its pretty easy to see that the force from the chute will cause an upward force on the rear of the vehicle. Combine that with weight we have on the front of the car, the lifting of the throttle, and the application of the front brakes, its easy for the back tires to come off the ground.
Of course there are some great drivers out there that can keep the car straight, which is why we dont see accidents happen every time out. But there will be times (as weve seen) that the back end will pitch sideways and will not be correctable.
I think that the tethers should be attached at a higher point. The higher the better in my opinion. There are many configurations to make this work. I have posted one below. (excuse my horrible drawings lol. just spend 5 mins on it). In this configuration, the chute would create a rotational moment around point A which would apply the force on the rear of the car back and downward instead of upward. (remember its been a while since i had any physics or Statics classes, so i could be completely wrong about this, but please explain why if you think i am)
gotta run to a job site meeting then ill be back to add a few things to this post. in the mean time go ahead and start discussing. and like i said, Im not doing this to start an argument. just hoping we can put our minds together and figure out a solution.
I dont care what you do to the chute mount. It will not fix the problem that most of theses cars have. IMO weight distribution is causing all the issues... and that has NOTHING to do with weight bias.
I dont care what you do to the chute mount. It will not fix the problem that most of theses cars have. IMO weight distribution is causing all the issues... and that has NOTHING to do with weight bias.
So not front to rear, but rear side to side weight distribution?
There is more to it than just tag points for the chute. Similar to what Rick said, the front wheels are becoming a pivotal point in these cars. If you take weight out of the back, you have to compensate some how. A wing can do that.... if you use it properly.
The wing on the Tial car had a large role in why the chute lifted, thus lifting the car. The rake on the wing was too negative, which is great for aero performance, however, it lifted the chute.
In my opinion, the tag line should be in line with the frame rails of the car. It's a relatively neutral position and will distribute the force evenly.
So many factors will affect the chute itself once deployed, I'd be more inclined to raise the tag line slightly and call it good. Even if the air flowing over the wing throws the chute higher, it will always adjust to center mass of tag position.
I watched one of the big teams move one of their cars and the rear suspension had no droop when the back end was lifted off the ground. It looked like the car had no rear suspension at all.
I watched one of the big teams move one of their cars and the rear suspension had no droop when the back end was lifted off the ground. It looked like the car had no rear suspension at all.
I see what you mean. I had the blox drag coilovers on my car for a little while and they were exactly like that. I swear when i would hit bumps at anything over 50mph the rear tires came off the ground. went back to my 300lb springs and progress CSIIs. ride is 1000% better and 60' time stayed the same (even though they arent anything great)
Never thought about the wing and its affect on the chute. makes perfect sense. This is great info guys! Keep it coming!
I watched one of the big teams move one of their cars and the rear suspension had no droop when the back end was lifted off the ground. It looked like the car had no rear suspension at all.
if the chute effected the car neutrally (by mounting the launcher and line correctly) there would be 0 lift on the rear of the car.
the issue is lift caused by the chute. OP's first picture illustrates that perfectly. the line is Inclined therefore produces lift, thats physics.
This series of pics pretty much tell the story. Air from the wing lifted the chute high. Tag line is in the right spot and it doesn't matter much about where the bag sits.
I have seen cars with the rear wheel off the ground WITHOUT a chute.. The brakes alone are enough to upset the car.
I raced Felix (he was driving Pauls car) at the Cecil race this year and his wheels where atleast a foot off the ground. I slammed the brakes on making sure that I stayed far enough behind him to give him room if he needed it. Thankfully Felix did a hell of a driving job keeping the car off the wall and in his own lane.
Damnit this is 2015... how is there no video of the incident?
Tomfoolery!
i dont know what your talking about, there are about 5 different videos from different angles. Also there is another thread in the drag section that shows the accident.
i dont know what your talking about, there are about 5 different videos from different angles. Also there is another thread in the drag section that shows the accident.
Damnit this is 2015... how is there no video of the incident?
Tomfoolery!
Posts like this make me smh, first if anyone remotely follows sport compact drag racing, the first 3 places i'd look are facebook.com/eracerproductions facebook.com/thesaucespot facebook.com/nyce1s 95% of what you will be looking for will be found at one of those
But google with drivers name definitely pulls it up and 3 posts down from this like dave said is an entire thread with video. it's that scroll and double tap mentality lmao
Very good info! nonvtechallmotor are you saying we should stay away from rear drag spoliers like the Tial car? or drag spoliers in general?
You need some type of wing on the car. I had a small carbon duck wing years ago. For 1 run I removed it to see if the "drag" was slowing me down. The car was very unstable in 3rd and 4th gear but with the wing it was very easy to drive..
I don't like to pull the chute. I run all 4 brakes with 4 piston calibers up front and zero weight ballast in the bumper area. I don't know if its the safest/best but its what I feel is the safest/best for me.
I've said it many times before IMO driving these cars are easy its stopping is where you need to drive them.
Posts like this make me smh, first if anyone remotely follows sport compact drag racing, the first 3 places i'd look are facebook.com/eracerproductions facebook.com/thesaucespot facebook.com/nyce1s 95% of what you will be looking for will be found at one of those
But google with drivers name definitely pulls it up and 3 posts down from this like dave said is an entire thread with video. it's that scroll and double tap mentality lmao
Hey genius. I don't follow import drag racing past going to IvsD @ MIR. Haven't since Tuna sold the CRX.
BTW I mentioned the driver's name comment right above you. Originally I searched Tial drag civic crash and found NOTHING. FWIW Three posts down was something about sol's BBC I clicked New Posts, not Drag Racing.
You need some type of wing on the car. I had a small carbon duck wing years ago. For 1 run I removed it to see if the "drag" was slowing me down. The car was very unstable in 3rd and 4th gear but with the wing it was very easy to drive..
I don't like to pull the chute. I run all 4 brakes with 4 piston calibers up front and zero weight ballast in the bumper area. I don't know if its the safest/best but its what I feel is the safest/best for me.
I've said it many times before IMO driving these cars are easy its stopping is where you need to drive them.
All 4 brakes is some crazy ****.... Lol you've got some ***** for sure. But I agree with you on the front that you gotta to equip the car with what makes the driver most comfortable.
08-11-2015, 08:28 AM
Parachute and tether mounting locations
