rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

I've done research and still haven't found my answer. I made 662whp on stock valves, I wanna go 800+ but I'm not sure if the stock valves will be strong enough. can anyone here help me make a decision. I chose this forum because its the most relevant when it comes to power.

Pro-SeriesFab

Why would power output be a factor in valve strength?

I would be more concerned with RPM/spring # rating as a metric of valve strength over a number like HP.

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

because the more power we make the more likely to break parts. Power has everything to do with it you can make a 1000HP at the 7000RPM so while RPM can be a Factor its not the primary Goal of building a reliable car.
I have a feeling factory valves are stronger than the aftermarket ones, but I wanna see if anyone has taken the chance to prove it.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

From what I read the RPM has everything to do with upgrading the spring, but that was just a quick bit of research. I couldn't find a 'fail point' such as the common fail points for cylinder sleeves that are noted throughout the internet.

m4xwellmurd3r

That logic doesn't apply to every part of an engine though. Switching from a stock valve to aftermarket is usually a matter of cost, availability, weight, and the fact that aftermarket valves tend to be cut for performance rather than economy. Just check out the back face of a stock valve vs an aftermarket one.

Pro-SeriesFab

Yes, but why?

Specifically, if I build a 1000HP 6BT/common rail engine that makes peak HP at 3000RPM do you think it's valve requirements would be different from a F20C making 1000HP at 8000RPM?

What about an all-motor 10,000RPM engine vs a 8,000RPM SFWD engine?

You are either increasing RPM, increasing pressure, or reducing losses to increase HP of which these would be the primary concerns.

4piston

Your limitation will be heat. All these valves have a different tensile strength, and can take a different amount of heat depending on the material. Very high hp engines running a lot of boost pressure, and especially with modern day fuels will distort the valves and bend them. A standard valve will distort and cool, and stay bent. As a result they will usually hang up on the other valve and destroy the engine.

Comp plus Ferrea valves have memory, so when you distort them on a high hp application, they return to their original shape as they cool.....where a higher tensile strength stainless valve that you would use in an all motor application will just stay bent.

I wouldn't run an OEM Honda valve over 800hp with confidence. People have done it, it may work fine for a period of time, but why play with fire when there are better alternatives for a fairly affordable price.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

^ All this

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

thank you.
all I needed was a make up my mind answer, and this was it.

LightningTeg

At what point would you say its a good idea to switch? I know it depends on the setup but we could probably get a ballpark. I've been running around with stock valves / E85 in the 5-600hp range for years now.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

I purchased the Full Ferrea valve train including the comp plus valves and would never look back. I ordered everything, comp plus valves, valve springs, retainers, guides, keepers, etc. Got everything through Real street permormance for like $1200 or $1300.

I wanted to make sure I had the right parts and have peace of mind. I would rather cough up the $1300 bucks then have to buy another block and head because something broke and destroyed everything in its path.

Me personally, would still choose these parts even if I was looking for 500whp.

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

after asking and checking around, I know more people with failures on aftermarket valves over 800hp than any on stock valves. my friend just removed his ferrea comp plus because one is bent without contact, and guy with a Bmw running ferrea all 24 valves bent, he went back to stock valves and is fine. so now I am kinda in a hang on deciding now, Stock/Aftermarket.

CO_RaceFab

Comp plus valves do not bend for no reason you may not be able to see why it happened but there is a reason beyond valve failure.

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

I know guys with 1000 plus on comp plus valves running mid 8's. However go with what you feel comfortable with. There is only one real way to see how long they will last, run them and find out.

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

now my tuner friend recommends Ferrea 6000 over the comp plus, but I already have the comp plus in my possession. these decisions are hard after so many years of building, and my other tuner friend recommends just changing the exhaust side to comp plus. They are both great tuners but still undecided on what to do, do listen to the tuner and have failure you know what will happen, especially if the user is the Mechanic.

efHondefender

I've had comp 6000 series valves ruin their seat because they weren't hard enough for what I was doing on my old 3sgte. I've never read of anybody in the 3sgte world having problems with the comp+ valves. Call Ferrea and talk to Zeke if you need more convincing. The stock Honda valves are 2 piece valves as far as I know. There is only so much pressure and heat it's gonna take before the valve head pops off at the weld. I would think that power output (heat), spring pressure and how aggressive the cam ramp rates are will be the primary factors. I would assume that stock valves would probably last longer on a higher boost/mild cam and spring setup vs an aggressive cam and spring package on lower boost producing the same power.

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

when I consider all the factors.
current setup head wise stock port head with Crower springs and retainer and Crower stage 2 turbo cams stock valves making 662whp 29psi on a BW s300 turbo. cams were weak.

New setup is with changes: Garrett 67mm GTW turbo, Skunk2 pro 1 cams with KMS springs and retainers. I will give the ferrea competition valves a chance, I just hate it that I have to take the perfectly running motor apart. and since I'm not a machinist I have to take the head to someone to seat the valves, and hope I don't need new guides.

E Town DSM

When it comes to valvetrain if there is a such thing as an upgrade you do it. Can never be too safe with that stuff. Dropped valves will ruin your life and your turbo, pistons, head, block....

95eggsr66

30psi 6266 stock gsr head with just spring and retainers doing fine so far

A L I A S

i have heard horror stories of high pressure springs eventually breaking the heads of stock valves off. how ever my current setup is 90lb springs, ctr cams, and stock valves revving to 9000, precision 6262 @ 21lbs

Snowmanonfire

Supertech Intake and Exhaust valves springs and stems make sure they are spec'd for your power. I used Supertech I don't work for them it was suggested to me and they are still working after 3 years no oil burning on a K20.

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

I went with:
Ferrea competition plus
KMS 85lbs springs and retainers
Supertech seals
Supertech locks
Skunk 2 pro 1 cams
stock port, can't see the justification of porting, Honda heads are just fine with stock port in my opinion.

4piston

Unless you want to make more power. If you are racing against yourself and don't want to be faster, then the stock port is fine. Otherwise, there's 50-100hp in a cylinder head in low hp turbo applications and a couple hundred hp in the cylinder head for a high hp turbo application.

Steeve_Civic

Is there any dyno tests?
I want to go faster !

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

I want to see some independent dyno tests proving this. I had a built head before ported polished with oversized valves, 3 angle valve job etc. The only visible difference was that the ports were smoother. its not like Honda heads are made by GM or Ford where its a clump of metal with valves in it. they are already ported enough from the factory. (not saying I wouldn't run a ported head, but companies are overcharging for something that is not significantly important. or is proven. I thought about porting it myself, but I don't think it makes a huge difference in Hondas.) This is just my opinion, Just like the claims it will make 50-100 more Horsepower.