tepid1

I have to disagree. Anyone that knows suspensions knows that binding the suspension with a stiff spring, inhibiting the shock, is a bandaid.

There are many ways to skin the cat.... I know you'll get better results with a spring and shock combo that works correctly and is not bound.

Charisma

So instead of disagreeing, what's your suggestion?

E Town DSM

Guess he doesnt want to share?? i keep hearing of people running soft spring rates all around and having success but i also see guys running off the self drag suspensions(omni,blox,pic=all the same ****) and doing good too.

01DC4

iTrader: (3)

This im interested to hear as well?

boostedcivicsir

progress drag kit, valved to your weight/ power level.
im using 450lbs in the front and 1000s out back.

www.progressauto.com

tepid1

I'll share. I didn't see that anyone responded to the thread. I have a life and a job so I don't lurk around H-T all day every day....

The objective is to use the shock and use it in both directions. Rebound and dampening will work far better that the spring doing the work. With a heavy spring you are doing two things.... inhibiting the shock from moving and if it does move it's going to be at a rate that is uncontrollable. Kits like Omni, PIC, S2 are all notorious for this.

Really what you want is a shock that is; at a minumum, dually adjustable.

Let's talk about a fast car and compare what works to what most people "think" works.

Miller for instance.... He consistantly cuts 1.4x 60's. You think that is with Omni drags? lol. Last I knew he was using Strange shocks (he claims they are custom valved) and a soft spring. I'm not going to give out his rates because that's ****ed up, but you get the point.

Talk to all the pro teams.... they don't use stiff springs. It's a bandaid. Plain and simple.

tepid1

What were your 60's on the 24.5, Mikey?

DSRxCandyh2bEG

iTrader: (4)

Nice to know... That was actually some useful info.

E Town DSM

last time i checked all the pro teams use a wheelie bar and run under 100lb rear springs. just saying

tepid1

Just because the car doesn't have a wheelie bar doesn't mean the default answer is to use stiff springs.... Just saying

Do you know why they use soft springs in the rear? Please don't answer because they are on the bar because that's not all true....

Just because the cars we run are FWD doesn't make it all that much different in force and weight transfer from a RWD.

Mark Morris

Spring rates are stated in "lbs per inch" (lb/in) in the "standard" system, or kg/mm in metric/ international system.

boostedcivicsir

low 1.7s high 1.6s but its not the suspension.
its application of power.

but it is night and day over the shelf kit of 1.8s'

92redhatch

Blox has a nice coilover setup. I think it's 12k up front and 18k rear for like $600. You can't beat the price

92redhatch

Sorry $759 http://www.velocityshop.com/product/...ntegra_98.html

bdracer

What would be a good starting point as far as spring rates and valving? On a RWD car you want the weight to transfer to the rear tires. I don't think the same would hold true for a FWD. From what I gather, guys with wheelie bars run a soft spring in the rear to get the car to plant on the bars once the car is launched. Going by NHRA rules the wheelie bars had to be a minimum of 1" to the ground at rest on a level surface. Say you had a car that has a total front weight of 1600lbs and a rear weight of 950lbs, where would you start? Also, is the weight bias between the front and rear what it should be? If not, what would be a good ratio?

tepid1

Good questions right there!

What car are we talking about here?

Obviously on a FWD car you want to absorb energy on the initial weight transfer and try not to disturb the front.... as much as possible. The front is going to decompress, so you want to up your rebound adjustments in the front. The rear is going to want to squat, so there you will want to dampen that energy (increase compression) and release it slower (higher than normal rebound) such that you don't shock the chassis. If you have a stiff rear then that defeats all of what you're trying to do and you end up with a shitty transition and end up shocking the chassis and making the front work harder than it should.

Guys that run bars use the soft spring as a transition from suspension to the bars. They select the spring based on how they want to transition to and from the bar. Depends on if the bars have springs too or not.

It's tough to tell you where your weight should be. Again, what car are you talking about? What power level? What suspension?

OmegaDynamics

How many FWD cars have you worked with that runs bars? if so what is the best 60'? At what point on the do you want to transition to and from the bars?

Your opinions on suspension stuff is nothing more than opinion, since last time I check you haven't race a car in many years. You bash high spring rates yet miss the point. the original OP has a 12 second allmotor car and your applying Millers Outlaw suspension to his question.

There are two ways to approach it, one is the heavy spring way, IE Blox, Omni, Pic etc. That is the most affordable approach since the spring is cheap. Most of cars at the track in the street classes run a heavier spring combo and run excellent times and break records.

You quote verbatim what you have heard from Millers combo and attempt to apply it to everyone, but seem to forget the many posts he has made about changing valving out to get the car to react to his liking. For many people custom strange shocks, with custom valving, and multiple attempts are not a viable option financially.

A sub $1000 heavy spring combo works damn good, if your willing to spend allot more initially on rebuild-able stuff, collect lots of data, spend more on multiple valving attempts then there is the softer spring approach which has its merits. If you have a 12 second allmotor car the second option is probably not good advice.

I look forward with great anticipation seeing you go high 1.4's and mids 8's with all of the regurgitated tech you have absorbed over your hiatus from the track.

narfdanarf

Have you looked into the price of the strange stuff? It's not that much more expensive.

xsi-t

now that was well put

tepid1

I am very familiar with a FWD car on the bar. If you don't know I worked with a HR car in the past. Since you know everything about me you must have already known that.... My opinion, as you call it, is based off of what I saw at the track.

My knowledge of miller's suspension is what I have seen with my own two eyes. It has nothing to do with hearing on the interwebz.... I spent time talking to the man himself and sharing ideas. In fact, as of last year, we had been using the same exact suspension. I had mine revalved and everything. It's not as expensive as you think.... I don't know what he does now, nor do I care.

You are right though.... to a point. For a 12sec all motor car the cheaper suspensions are prob feasable. Is it necessarily the right or wrong way to go? Well, do what you want. I'm just sharing what I know and have seen. Just because my own car doesn't run a bar doesn't mean I didn't work with one.

OmegaDynamics

What HR car did you work with? Must of been a record seting car, with bars and your knowledge it had to of gone low 1.3's 60' no problem right?

E Town DSM

i know of a few record setting fwd cars that didnt even run rear springs at all

tepid1

No records set.... but came home with Wally's. That must count for something. lol

Boner_Ben

What kinda 60's have you put down tepid1?

tepid1

Last time I had the car out was for ***** and giggles, but 1.61

This was not with the suspension or turbo setup I have now either. For what it's worth.

The HR car was Ryan's. I believe his best 60' was low 1.5's. The car never fully was dialed in before he changed his setup.... Every pass we were doing better.