Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best?
03-17-2004, 10:23 AM
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Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best?
Who's design makes the lightest, most reliable set of custom pistons for NA applications. Who uses the best material? Who's most compatible with Darton blocks? GE blocks?
Just facts please, and if you must cop-out with responses like:
"its all personal preference"
then explain why you prefer a specific one.
Just facts please, and if you must cop-out with responses like:
"its all personal preference"
then explain why you prefer a specific one.
03-17-2004, 11:16 AM
#2
Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (4gotpasswordAGAIN)
Call Darius at CP Pistons and kindly ask for 10 to 15 mins of his time.
He used to work at Ross and now handles CP's import pistons division.
This will be an excellent start.
CP's # is 949-567-9000.
He used to work at Ross and now handles CP's import pistons division.
This will be an excellent start.
CP's # is 949-567-9000.
03-17-2004, 11:41 AM
#3
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Rocket)
I had a talk last saturday with a guy that works for WESMAR, which is a sprint car engine building company here in Tulsa. They build some of the fastest cars in the World of Outlaw series. He swears by CP.
Of course, none of this is first hand exprience here, but none-the-less, I find it to be useful information from a guy that has been building motors since before I was born.
Of course, none of this is first hand exprience here, but none-the-less, I find it to be useful information from a guy that has been building motors since before I was born.
03-17-2004, 12:54 PM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Rocket)
I'm pretty sure if I call a specific company they will just give me the sales pitch as to why thier pistons are better than the other guy. I'm sure others on this board have the same question as to which company to go with.
The question being: Which company will I be most successfull with when building my high reving naturally aspirated motor?
The question being: Which company will I be most successfull with when building my high reving naturally aspirated motor?
03-17-2004, 01:34 PM
#5
Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (4gotpasswordAGAIN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4gotpasswordAGAIN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm pretty sure if I call a specific company they will just give me the sales pitch as to why thier pistons are better than the other guy. I'm sure others on this board have the same question as to which company to go with.
The question being: Which company will I be most successfull with when building my high reving naturally aspirated motor? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Call each company and see which one gives you less BS and more info.
The question being: Which company will I be most successfull with when building my high reving naturally aspirated motor? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Call each company and see which one gives you less BS and more info.
03-17-2004, 03:20 PM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Rocket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Call each company and see which one gives you less BS and more info.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Call each company and see which one gives you less BS and more info.</TD></TR></TABLE>
03-17-2004, 04:52 PM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (JDM2ndGen)
but remember, it's possible for a company with good products to have idiots on the phone.
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03-17-2004, 11:18 PM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (4gotpasswordAGAIN)
ive heard nothin but good remarks about CP pistons, so they must be doing something right.
03-18-2004, 01:07 AM
#10
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Rocket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Call each company and see which one gives you less BS and more info.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Call each company and see which one gives you less BS and more info.</TD></TR></TABLE>
03-18-2004, 08:07 AM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Sp00n'd Supra)
Wow, the Wiesco pistons seem to have more engineered into them. The Arias are sweet and simple. Does anyone one on this board have any knowlegde as to why pistons are designed in a certain way?
03-18-2004, 08:50 AM
#12
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (4gotpasswordAGAIN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4gotpasswordAGAIN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, the Wiesco pistons seem to have more engineered into them. The Arias are sweet and simple. Does anyone one on this board have any knowlegde as to why pistons are designed in a certain way?</TD></TR></TABLE>
there are a million answers
but this industry sucks *** and everyone thinks that they are the shizzle. most companies that sell a brand dont even test their **** against others. but yet they claim to be the best without proof or dynos
here is an article that I wrote then jeff @ ib helped touch up a few spots
i think its pretty unbiased
http://honda-central.com/techa...s.htm
sadly if you really want to know what the best is, you need to dyno each of hte pistons, and or send them to an independent lab to see which pistons are made with the best tolerances and highest quality material
then there is other factors like dome shape, skirt design etc etc
that is why in the article it recomends with going with a piston that there are proven dyons and track times. because all the talk in the world wont get you down the track faster, only higher hp & trq numbers will get you there
there are a million answers
but this industry sucks *** and everyone thinks that they are the shizzle. most companies that sell a brand dont even test their **** against others. but yet they claim to be the best without proof or dynos
here is an article that I wrote then jeff @ ib helped touch up a few spots
i think its pretty unbiased
http://honda-central.com/techa...s.htm
sadly if you really want to know what the best is, you need to dyno each of hte pistons, and or send them to an independent lab to see which pistons are made with the best tolerances and highest quality material
then there is other factors like dome shape, skirt design etc etc
that is why in the article it recomends with going with a piston that there are proven dyons and track times. because all the talk in the world wont get you down the track faster, only higher hp & trq numbers will get you there
03-18-2004, 09:05 AM
#13
Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (4gotpasswordAGAIN)
Bottom line is you will have to ask people with experience what they think. If 3 or 4 different experienced engine builders tell you the same thing then you are on to something.
A piston company is not going to tell you what they do better than the competition because they don't want to give up their edge. Just like asking a head porter what he does to his heads that make it better than his competitors. No sane porter will do that.
I did find it helpful that the first time I talked to CP it was for an hour and they completely understood what I wanted and the problems I had noticed with anohter piston manufacturer I used to use.
A piston company is not going to tell you what they do better than the competition because they don't want to give up their edge. Just like asking a head porter what he does to his heads that make it better than his competitors. No sane porter will do that.
I did find it helpful that the first time I talked to CP it was for an hour and they completely understood what I wanted and the problems I had noticed with anohter piston manufacturer I used to use.
03-18-2004, 09:57 AM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Bob-DC2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bob-DC2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
http://honda-central.com/techa...s.htm
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thank you
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bob-DC2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
that is why in the article it recomends with going with a piston that there are proven dyons and track times. because all the talk in the world wont get you down the track faster, only higher hp & trq numbers will get you there</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://honda-central.com/techa...s.htm
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thank you
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bob-DC2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
that is why in the article it recomends with going with a piston that there are proven dyons and track times. because all the talk in the world wont get you down the track faster, only higher hp & trq numbers will get you there</TD></TR></TABLE>
03-18-2004, 10:01 AM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Rocket)
Pistons are pistons.
In the turbo world strength is much more important, for us weight is important. So pick the lightest piston.
Out of:
CP
JE
Ross
Wiseco
Arias
I've never seen a large amount of problems with just one brand. And i've heard tons of success stories with each brand. Just dont use SRP''s and you'll be ok.
In the turbo world strength is much more important, for us weight is important. So pick the lightest piston.
Out of:
CP
JE
Ross
Wiseco
Arias
I've never seen a large amount of problems with just one brand. And i've heard tons of success stories with each brand. Just dont use SRP''s and you'll be ok.
03-18-2004, 10:17 AM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Rocket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bottom line is you will have to ask people with experience what they think. If 3 or 4 different experienced engine builders tell you the same thing then you are on to something.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup, exactly!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaxBoost »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pistons are pistons.
In the turbo world strength is much more important, for us weight is important. So pick the lightest piston.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
huh?
well thats pretty much wrong.
its like sayinga all valves are the same. coatings, skirt design, valve relief design, production tolerances and a bunch of other things all make a difference.
explain what you mean by "strength" of a piston?
success isnt a relative term. If I am going to shell out 400-700 bux for a set of pistons, i would want the best pistons that make the most power and will last the longest. not something that just lasts a while.
remember different pistons make different horsepower numbers. design DOES matter
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup, exactly!
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaxBoost »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pistons are pistons.
In the turbo world strength is much more important, for us weight is important. So pick the lightest piston.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
huh?
well thats pretty much wrong.
its like sayinga all valves are the same. coatings, skirt design, valve relief design, production tolerances and a bunch of other things all make a difference.
explain what you mean by "strength" of a piston?
success isnt a relative term. If I am going to shell out 400-700 bux for a set of pistons, i would want the best pistons that make the most power and will last the longest. not something that just lasts a while.
remember different pistons make different horsepower numbers. design DOES matter
03-18-2004, 12:32 PM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (4gotpasswordAGAIN)
Arias , JE, Ross, Wiseco and Cp are all made of the same material either 2618 or 4032. Arias, JE, CP, and Ross use the same forging house to make all of the forgings.
When ordering custom pistons you need to be specific of what you intend to do with the pistons. All of us, piston manufacturers, over-engeneer all of our pistons so we have no piston failures. This is why you get heavy shelf pistons. Some one may say that they are going all motor and then they put NOS on the motor and now you have a failure, the customer now says he has a bad part when he never his intention to use NOS. This is how piston companies get bad names. As for an employee of Arias and a motor builder I prefer to use Arias. Arias has been using there own product for over 35 years no other piston company can claim that. Keep in mint that Mo from ross used to work for arias that is how he learned to build pistons. Same with Tony and most of the engineers from JE. Dave calvert and all the brothers from CP also learned to build pistons from Arias. So when you ask who has the most piston knowledge, Arias has by far the most and will continue to be the leader in sport compact pistons.
When ordering custom pistons you need to be specific of what you intend to do with the pistons. All of us, piston manufacturers, over-engeneer all of our pistons so we have no piston failures. This is why you get heavy shelf pistons. Some one may say that they are going all motor and then they put NOS on the motor and now you have a failure, the customer now says he has a bad part when he never his intention to use NOS. This is how piston companies get bad names. As for an employee of Arias and a motor builder I prefer to use Arias. Arias has been using there own product for over 35 years no other piston company can claim that. Keep in mint that Mo from ross used to work for arias that is how he learned to build pistons. Same with Tony and most of the engineers from JE. Dave calvert and all the brothers from CP also learned to build pistons from Arias. So when you ask who has the most piston knowledge, Arias has by far the most and will continue to be the leader in sport compact pistons.
03-18-2004, 02:18 PM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (4gotpasswordAGAIN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 4gotpasswordAGAIN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, the Wiesco pistons seem to have more engineered into them. The Arias are sweet and simple. Does anyone one on this board have any knowlegde as to why pistons are designed in a certain way?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
u think so?
the casting, machining and finish work IMO is WAY cleaner on the ARIAS
</TD></TR></TABLE>
u think so?
the casting, machining and finish work IMO is WAY cleaner on the ARIAS
03-18-2004, 02:43 PM
#20
Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Sp00n'd Supra)
If you guys are interested in the accuracy of shape and tolerances of pistons, this can be arranged for all to see.
Things such as.
1) Ring groove waviness
2) Ring groove squareness to the pin
3) Ring groove surface finish
4) Skirt polarity to the pin
5) consistency of compression hieght
6) consistency of wieght
7) quality of rings provided
8) pin fit
9) Skirt taper
10) amount of cam and barrel of the skirt
11) quality of pin provided
12) detail of finish work such as factory deburing
13) quality of final skit finish and crown finish
etc.
I know CP's up for it. How bout the others.
JE
Wiseco
Ross
Arias
Things such as.
1) Ring groove waviness
2) Ring groove squareness to the pin
3) Ring groove surface finish
4) Skirt polarity to the pin
5) consistency of compression hieght
6) consistency of wieght
7) quality of rings provided
8) pin fit
9) Skirt taper
10) amount of cam and barrel of the skirt
11) quality of pin provided
12) detail of finish work such as factory deburing
13) quality of final skit finish and crown finish
etc.
I know CP's up for it. How bout the others.
JE
Wiseco
Ross
Arias
03-18-2004, 02:46 PM
#21
Trial User
Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Rocket)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you guys are interested in the accuracy of shape and tolerances of pistons, this can be arranged for all to see.
I know CP's up for it. How bout the others.
JE
Wiseco
Ross
Arias</TD></TR></TABLE>
ive already talked with jeff about doing this. i will pony up 40 bux towards an independent lab test.
i think jeff might be able to send a wiseco to be tested.
its just a matter of calling je, ross and arias to see if they want to loan out a set
I know CP's up for it. How bout the others.
JE
Wiseco
Ross
Arias</TD></TR></TABLE>
ive already talked with jeff about doing this. i will pony up 40 bux towards an independent lab test.
i think jeff might be able to send a wiseco to be tested.
its just a matter of calling je, ross and arias to see if they want to loan out a set
03-18-2004, 04:13 PM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Bob-DC2)
this thread is helping pick new pistons for my block...i'm stuck btw cp and wiesco's!!!
03-18-2004, 04:19 PM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (ek_jeremy)
I've used them all...Ina turbo car it doesnt really matter.
All-Motor Car, OEM is going to be really good for most buildups....Make sure you put OEM Honda Pistons in the test.
CP are nice, I talked with Darius @ PRI Show about designing a shelf piston that had more compression.
Wiesco are nice...the offerings from RLZ, Endyn and IB are hard to beat.
JE, decent lower compression shelf piston.
Sidenote: JE and Weisco are owned by the same company.
I've never used Ross All-Motor Pistons...but they are beefy.
Arias makes some good stuff too...alot of cali racers use them.
All-Motor Car, OEM is going to be really good for most buildups....Make sure you put OEM Honda Pistons in the test.
CP are nice, I talked with Darius @ PRI Show about designing a shelf piston that had more compression.
Wiesco are nice...the offerings from RLZ, Endyn and IB are hard to beat.
JE, decent lower compression shelf piston.
Sidenote: JE and Weisco are owned by the same company.
I've never used Ross All-Motor Pistons...but they are beefy.
Arias makes some good stuff too...alot of cali racers use them.
03-18-2004, 04:29 PM
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Re: Wiesco vs. Arias vs. Ross vs. JE vs. CP pistons. Who's the best? (Rocket)
This sounds like fun. I know a shop who caries all the brands I will talk to them and set something up.
I will also get a set of stock CTRs and ITRs for this.
Lets see what happends
I will also get a set of stock CTRs and ITRs for this.
Lets see what happends