EKSedAndy

I've done a lot of research and reading online and seem to find opinions and results that are all over the map, so looking for some advice from the all motor experts here. My setup is currently:

Stock B20Z block (PHK pistons)
Stock B16A2 head
B16A2 tranny
GSR cams
B16A2 intake manifold w/ B20 60 mm TB
Stock 240cc injectors
3" SRI w/ velocity stack
Hytech replica header
2.5" Hi-Flow cat and 2.5" exhaust

I'm happy at least for the time being keeping the internals stock so I don't really want to debate that. The car is a DD 99% of the time and anything in the 160-180 whp that this will make will be fine with me. However I have a couple things I'm not certain on that I'd like to sort out before I dyno it in the spring:

1) Throttle body sizing. Since this is a DD I'm more concerned about midrange drivability than peak numbers. I've read a lot of great things about the B16A2 IM out performing almost everything midrange, but I just want to make sure I'm not choking the 2.0 L with a 60 mm TB. Is this enough for my build or should I go for a 62 or more?

2) Are 240cc injectors going to be fine with an otherwise stock fuel system? Again I've seen mixed opinions on this but my reasoning is that an ITR puts down 180 whp range factory with 240's, so this should be plenty for my stock build. However if I'm wrong I rather upgrade now than run out of fuel at the dyno.

Thanks in advance for any help.

F22Master

If you want to upgrade the injectors, go for the RDX 410cc injectors. They are OEM from the Acura RDX and have a great spray pattern. They are also cheap, at ~$250 with the proper adapter hats and wiring pigtails.

A 60mm should be fine for that. Anything bigger will only really show gains in the upper rpm range.

93egSLEEPER

^^^ truth. You WILL see better performance with the RDX's. Up the fuel pressure (50-60 base) as well on them and it only gets better.

I personally like a 64-66mm TB on stockish B20's. Let it breath a little bit, especially with that intake manifold which will choke the higher powerband as it is.
ITR/CTR cams and I see close to 200 at the wheels. Perfect DD setup

seelback

go with a type r intake manifold, skunk2 66mm tb, type r cams, rdx injectors and a good tune. this will make a great dd with good power. my stock b20zVtec makes 200whp with type r cams, type r intake manifold, type r tb bored out to 65mm. the driveability, midrange, and top end power of the parts i recommended will be good for your setup.

Hatorade

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/stock-b20-vtec-i-has-disappoint-3000090/

Type R TB is 62 and should be fairly cheap
Don't need a Type R manifold. P30 manifold outperforms it to up to ~7800 rpm
240cc injectors are fine

I would also go with thinner headgasket and Type R Cams.

Even with all those, I only made 169whp. People say not to be hung up on numbers and the car pulls fine. (just an FYI)

seelback

never tested p30 IM on my setup so i wouldnt know the difference, i just know my setup performs well with the type r and i would only compare it to the ultra street if i feel like doing a back to back test for HT. i agree about not getting hung up on the numbers, cause i've seen soo many high hp numbers not perform very well off the rollers. i also agree with 240cc are enough but if the rdx injectors offer a better spray pattern it would be a plus to use them. you might be able to get a type r tb for a great price but if you cant get one then a S2 66mm is not a bad option for the price, im also using a zerg 2layer headgasket, it works fine but im not a fan of it, i wish buddy club would make a 2layer for 84mm cause the quality of the buddy club thin headgaskets are better than zerg's.

Hatorade

^^ You can get a custom head gasket thickness from Commetic. Its a little more $$$ (I think around $20~40 more) but is worth it for the bump in compression.

the custom thicknesses are as follows but I think you can get even thinner:
Available thickness: .027", .030", .036", .040", .045", .051", .060", .066", .070", .075",
.080”, .086”, .092”, .098”, .120"

Source: http://www.cometic.com/custom-gaskets.aspx
Catalog for b20vtec conversion is on page 73: http://www.cometic.com/catalogs/automotive/index.html

its ~$72 for the head gasket

I got the 0.070" one because my b16 head was shaved 0.050"
I told the vendor who sold me my Golden Eagle B20 Vtec kit which thickness I wanted and he contacted Commetic on my behalf.

seelback

i forgot about ordering a cometic. i've ordered custom thicknesses from cometic years ago, but since then all i've used is oem, buddy club's and tried out a the zerg on my setup.

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

Read the Dyno thread in the All Motor stickies and you will see what others have done.

200whp Is on the low side.

93egSLEEPER

If you put a ITR IM on your car a bet you a paycheck you see a huge increase in power. That IM was designed for a 1.6. On 87mm 1.8's is suffocating, 89mm 1.8's even worse. On a 2L... its a noose.
Add some RDX's and some fuel pressure along with that and you'll make 200. Your motor just can't breath.

F22Master

How would you like to transfer the money?

vtecmasta85

Better intake manifold choices for 2.0 vtec is AEBS/performer x/ITR style with 65mm for stock-ish setups. A pr3 is NOT a smart idea for 2.0 motors, don't care about other dyno sheets. Pr3 doesn't have near the cross section area for a 2.0 motor(plenum or runner)

vtecmasta85

[QUOTE=F22Master;49457549]How would you like to transfer the money/QUOTE]








Then how many of the well known b20 vtec setups are using a pr3 manifold? Or even street builds for that matter? You're taking the torque thing way too serious and its starting to spread as misguidance. Also if you have a high velocity manifold and not enough overlap(gsr, b16 cams) your power will fall off early anyway. Lots of people have made good power with itr style manifolds even on 1.8's. I'd say for the OP just to use an ITR style with stock itr throttle body it should work.

93egSLEEPER

Ummm you just proved my point for me. MORE power with the ITR manifold on a bigger motor w/ no mods/specs stated.
1 dyno test from god knows when doesn't apply to HIS motor like I stated. Of course the B16 IM will perform better on the B16...Honda does things for a reason.
I understand "it peaks sooner" or "is more usable" for "dd power", but cutting power short 500-700rpm will not make you faster. Period. I speak from experience in this instance. I had a 11.5:1 82mm GSR w/ Skunk2 tuner 1's and w/ the P30 it pulled hard til 7500 and then was a fast drop off. With the ITR IM, it pulled to 8300 and flat lined til 8550 before falling off, while at the same time gaining me 11whp and 4 ft/lb overall. On a bigger motor this will only be amplified.
Find ANY tuner/builder who will pic the P30 for a B20 over an ITR, intake resonance is a power killer.

F22Master

Read better, I said P30. NOT the 1st gen PR3.

F22Master

The ITR gained 3whp at the last thousand rpm, if that. The P30 had an 11whp advantage in the upper mid range, looks about 6-7000 rpm or so. That is a HUGE advantage to the P30. Oh, and the motor was a 12:1 mild B20V, no other info that I could find.

Also, OP stated that this car IS A DAILY DRIVER. Im not sure why everyone is sucking the ITR manifolds dick, it barely makes any more power, and only at the very last second. The P30 is better all the way up to at least 7000 rpm, sometimes more than 10whp better! The P30 would be a WAY better choice for this application, and hell, I would bet it would also perform better on the track. 10 extra hp to the exact spot where your rpms will be everytime you shift. Yeah, ill take that please!

93egSLEEPER

Difference in opinions. I'd like to see the setup on that B20 you provided in the graph. Since its only making 3whp over a B16 it was obviously a low comp b20 w/ a stock b16a2 head. You can tell by the dip in the curve that IM was a little big for that setup.
Since it sounds like he will keep the stock slugs, either intake will work just fine. I am not arguing the P30 does peak sooner and have a "power hump", but on bigger motors w/ more compression the ITR will perform better. Don't get me wrong, I was happy w/ my p30, but when I put the ITR on it carried power further and smoother.
Not trying to start a pissing match, the OP has info to go with whatever he feels is more appealing.

F22Master

What graphs are you looking at? The B20 peaked right around 200whp, the B16 around 170whp. Thats 30whp. And the article clearly stated 12:1 compression for the B20.

Im just not sure how +3hp for the last thousand rpm is better than +11hp in the meat of the power band?

93egSLEEPER

I must have missed something when I originally looked at it. I don't see anywhere where it stated the B20 was a 12:1 motor. Unless I can't see it all from work.

Uncle Dave

For the OP's setup with OEM style cams I would use in this order
Setup 1
P30 Manifold with a 66mm TB
Setup 2
Performa X with a 60mm TB
Setup 3
AEBS with a 60mm TB

As a daily I really dont give a **** about power above 7500rpm its just thing for all to **** over on the internet with these dyno graph queens.

blackeg

so i noticed not much mention of the sk2 pro series im. between that and a port matched p30 im the sk2 unit on my itr cammed lsvtec needed more fuel above 5500rpm so it was making more tq/hp

F22Master

Here is where I found the graph.

http://nzhondas.com/na-tuning/134368...-itr-fail.html

Here is the book its from: http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=1hNGqvojYBsC

"The 2.0L sported over 12:1 compression and a pair of Type R cams."

93egSLEEPER

I'll give it a read.
I was posting personal experience and the trends I noticed. I am a fan of the P30, but I like to carry power further which is my personal preference (If I am racing its at the track, and I stay below 3500 for DD so I'd rather have peak for the track). I should have kept that out of my dialogue and addressed his needs. Either way some good info is available for the OP, and anyone who might run across this later. HT being used like it's supposed to...imagine that.
I have always pondered opening a P30 up and porting it out some...if it can carry those mids as well as more gains up top...killer. If I wasn't running a GSR head for my current build I would give it a shot.

F22Master

Give that book a read on google books, you can read the first 30 pages or so and it has tons of dyno comparisons on intakes, filters, throttle bodies, and intake manifolds. Great read!

93egSLEEPER