Lonewolf1983

I Have a DC2R b18c7 and will be going for a hondata ECU shortly.
Only have boltons currently.

What are the limits of the factory injectors and pump?

I will upgrade eventually, but figured i'd wait until I choose a set of cams/intake manifold before upgrading them.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Biggest limitation of the stock injectors is that they are a primitive design by current standards. They don't respond terribly well to to increased pressure, have a single cone spray pattern, and are just plain old 80's tech.

All of the online calculators say that you need something around a 240cc injector to hit 200 crank hp @ 50.5psi nominal fuel pressure and 100% max duty cycle, but I feel like something is missing from those calcs since I can't see the manufacturer spec'ing the stock injectors to run at such a ragged edge. Sticking to a safer .80 duty cycle keeps you at about a 300cc injector.

I would say to look into the newer generation Bosch EV14 style injectors, I put a set on the daily beater and they really smoothed things out, despite being rather large for my setup at 370cc. I'd like to start playing with higher pressures but I need to replace the pump on my 230k mile bucket to be sure it's healthy first. Also of note is that I picked up about a 3% increase in fuel economy with them after a tiny bit of remapping.

Mine:







Anyways, the stock fuel pump should be fine for most NA setups as long as it's in good shape. There is an Airtex stock replacement pump available that shows a higher pressure rating on its data sheet (I can't remember the number off the top of my head, it was notably higher than the others that offered data). Putting a giant fuel pump in car that doesn't need it is pointless and may cause issues such as fuel heating or pressure buildup under low flow conditions since the regulator can only bleed off so much volume.

Other than that, make sure everything is clean and your filter is fresh and you should be good to go.

OMG

upgrade both unless you want to risk being disappointed when they crap out on the dyno

kulo

What about rdx injectors and walbro 190/5?

OMG

http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

RDX injectors are overrated, Walbro 190 is far more pump than is necessary. I stand by my recommendation of the EV14 (search Injector Nation/HiProfile or Fuel Injector Clinic on this forum) and the Airtex pump.

Lonewolf1983

yeah i've heard good things about the bosch type injectors, given its a pretty easy swap and recalibration of the ECU to suit i might as well bite the bullet and order the injectors too.

I think both FIC and Injector Dynamics use these


I'll probably go for an aeromotive kit, i have one in my other car and its been faultless.
Will just need to upgrade the wiring too.

Lonewolf1983

can anyone tell me if these will be 100% bolt in?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bosch-EV1...item1c4174bf85

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Yes, but get a hold of user HiProfile on here. His prices are unbeatable and he will get you the correct length ones so that you don't have to run those silly top hats and his adapter plugs are wireless (see mine above). Also, he uses a dual cone vectored nozzle so you spray is actually aimed down the ports.

Tell him I sent you, you won't be disappointed.

JKaze

Refering his catalog, only USCAR-EV6 to EV1 adapter is wireless, one solid piece. USCAR-EV6 to Honda OBD2 is typical wired.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Ahh yes. Forgot about the obd2 plugs.

FlewByU352

Injectors typically aren't happy over an 80% duty cycle. 240cc injectors just about max out before hitting 200whp. Is it possible to do? Yeah but it's not ideal. Honda saw a need to even up the fuel pressure on an ITR to help out with this.

Here's how I look at anyone doing a fuel system upgrade even all motor...

ID1000's and a re-wired Walbro255LPH, if you can't afford ID1000's use RDX injectors.

OMG

what do you mean by, "re-wire" Walboro 255

Lonewolf1983

standard fuel pump wiring isnt thick enough to handle the extra draw of an aftermarket fuel pump.

FlewByU352

Factory wiring will work just fine. However you make the pump much more efficient with a re-wire.

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

Can you explain further? I haven't heard this.

OMG

you guys talking about running a thick gauge (12 gauge or bigger) power wire directly from the battery to the pump via a relay

DDTECH

He's talking about running a thicker ground and power supply wire. Which in most cases, is true if youre talking about pumps bigger then walbro 255's. I've yet to see a voltage drop with this point on standard oem wiring in the car..

With that said..

Rdx injectors are very far, from overrated. At cost vs what you get, they are a very good injector choice for the budget racer. At 60psi base pressure the 410cc rdx's can out flow just about any rc 550 on the market. The spray pattern is generally where this all comes into play. I've seen some nice gains not only in power, but drivability wise going to a better spray type injector.

All injectors are not made the same, although "people" say they are.

Just like when you get into different fuels, you look at other things besides "octane", like gravity, and etc.

If youre on a budget, the RDX's should be at the top of your list, and can be had for around 275 with clips and plug in play harness, from Xenoncron. I've tuned a few cars to around 250 and still had more to go with these injectors. If your not on a budget, ID or FIC(Fuel injector clinic, NOT connection) are better choices. There's a new company out called "southbay fuel injectors" and they seem up and coming. I like supporting the smaller companies but We, As in "DDTECH" were supplied injectors by ID, so that's who we run, but we always recommend going to a better spray pattern injector, whoever its from, the gains will be very well enjoyed.

Lonewolf1983

Thanks for the comments DDtech - pretty much along the lines of what my research turned up.

Newer bosch type spray patterns are better for idle, economy and power.
I looked at southbay and they are quite well priced, but Hiprofile ended up hooking me up even cheaper and with matched injectors.

Cant wait to get them in with the s300 and see if i can get some decent gains, then some DDtech cams

DDTECH

Good choice

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

You're not wrong, and I should have been a little more careful with my words.

I did a ton of research on different injector types before I went with the ones I did, especially since I was specifically after spray characteristics rather than just increasing volume.

I really liked that the EV14's were so configurable as far as spray angles, cone size, etc etc, even though it's pretty hard to spec that as you're kind of at the mercy of what the retailer offers (unless you want to get into the business yourself!)

At the end of the day I was able to get a set of what are effectively a generation or two ahead of the RDX injectors for less money. There's nothing wrong with them, I just felt there was more value available... that's all I meant by "overrated." Consequently, I don't feel that RC's should even be included in a conversation abut modern injectors

DDTECH

I agree, Totally. RC had their days. But really, its the new style EV stuff...

PJ_Sir

How about the EV14 vs ID? im looking to upgrade my stock injectors too!

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Injector Dynamics uses EV14 cores. For an NA application there are more budget friendly and size appropriate options (mentioned in this thread)

Iirc, ID only goes down to 750 or so.

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

Glad I stumbled upon this thread. Thanks Spadam and DD!