rrace002

I am going to have to set the cam timing for the pro2 cams on a built h22. Does anyone know which settings are best for this cam? 12-1 compression approximately and a 97mm stroke.

I think my bro lost the spec sheet because the machine shop took a few months to finish the machine work.

crazes

call skunk 2 so they can send you another sheet and do a p2v and v2v to get everything correctly

rrace002

I tried, they didn't answer.

q16racer

Buy a cam degree kit and use recommended centerlines.

ESP.net

I am very interested in how this setup runs and for how long and what kind of power it makes... keep us informed F20B with 87mm on stock sleeves...

H2BJON

Keep us posted, very curious to see what it makes. I need to hurry up and snap a pic of my engine on the stand

NAH2B

dont even worry about the spec sheet, you can degree them on the dyno to find the sweet spot.

more importantly, CHECK YOUR VALVE CLEARANCES

97mm_EH3

100 degree IN centerline and 106 EX centerline is where you should start.

rrace002

Alright thanks. I should be getting it in the car this week. And yes it is 87mm on the stock f20b sleeves.

rrace002

I figured I would get more replies if I posted a pic of the motor on the stand ready to install into the car ... lol.

rrace002

100 degree IN centerline and 106 EX centerline is where you should start.

From a quick search online it seems like that would mean to have the intake zero at top dead center and advance the exhaust cam 6 degrees at top dead center?

I tried to start it running both cams zeroed out at top dead center(the same way you would configure a stock motor) and it wouldn't idle.

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

I think what you are wanting is where to set your cam gears at. These guys are giving you the lobe centers which is what you should be going by, and you set the cams with a degree wheel.


http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...s/viewall.html

If you choose not to do this, you will run the risk of your valves kissing eachother and boom. You could set the cam gears(assuming they are accurate) to 0 and 0 and head for the dyno, do your baseline and then make adjustments from there...hoping you find the "sweet spot." But again - by doing this you run the risk of valves hitting eachother or even valve to piston contact.

I'm not sure what made you choose the Pro2 cam, but if you're not going to degree them to your motor, you selected the wrong cam.

rrace002

I dug up this post here https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/skunk2-pro2-2674879/
Which was -1 intake and +3 exhaust. I might have to give that a try before degreeing since the head wasn't milled and the block wasn't decked.

NAH2B

degreeing cams does NOT eliminate the risk of valve contact. it also does NOT ensure the cams will perform the best.

thats why i said more importantly check your clearances and then dial them in on the dyno since he doesnt have the spec sheet. i could have given him centerlines and he could have degreed them and guess what....he still could have dropped a valve on the dyno.

degreeing the cams is not whats important and certainly doesnt find the "sweet spot" more often than not. alot of people dont understand this.

rrace002

So should degreeing the cams help or should I just use the quick settings the skunk 2 guy posted on that last post---->https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2674879.
Right now the cams are at zero (setup as if it was a stock cam) and the car wont really idle.
I was trying to get a halfway decent basemap on there before I could get a chance to get to the dyno. I would rather drive it there than tow a car there that doesn't even run.....

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

Whats the point of degreeing them then?

NAH2B

degreeing the cams simply sets them to the manufacturers intended centerlines. making sure peak lift is occuring @ the recomended crank angle.

it does not in any way guarantee safe clearances. perfect example are h22 pro3s, if you degree them to skunks specs you will not have adequate v2v clearance. you will also have no idea how much p2v clearance you have either. the only way to know these important things are to check the clearances. every engine is different. anything from guide clearance to stem height (vj) can effect v2v clearance aside from lift/duration/ramp speed itself.

degreeing also does not guarantee the cams will perform best at those settings. i have yet to come across a set of pro1s, pro2s or pro3s which perform the best @ skunks specs. this can simply be due to the fact that every engine is different imo.

every engine is different which is why its always best to adjust the cam gears on the dyno after confirming which settings are infact safe while assembling the engine.

check your v2v and p2v clearances first. then degree the cams. this will tell you if the degreed settings are safe to try and also allow you to dial them in on the dyno. BUT you do not need to degree them, you only need to check clearances to be safe and to find the sweet spot on the dyno.

once you check clearances you will have a good idea of what settings to start with on the dyno. some setups allow only a narrow window without many options. other setups will have plenty of clearance and it is those setups which would be good to degree the cams after checking clearances to give you a better idea of where to start on the dyno. but that doesnt mean those degreed settings will work best.


hopefully that explains it a bit better...

snobordboy

If you are having a tough time getting it to idle, it probably wants more air. Try raising your idle speed, and maybe crack the throttle a bit open at idle. I managed to get my Pro1's down to about 1000 rpm idle, but my IAC duty is maxed out.

I started at 0,0 on my car, and when I adjusted to the "quick settings" it idled much smoother, and ran better throught the powerband as well, still yet to get fine tuned on a dyno.

Teamdiesel

I totally agree with NAH2B. Degreeing cams is not a necessity. As long as you check your valve to valve and valve to piston, you should have and idea of your limits. With that info in hand, you maintain skunk's recommend separation, and start from their quick settings until you maximize power on the dyno. That is the best way to handle these cams. I don't have time to waste in degreeing cams, only to have to move them on the dyno because it doesn't make full power there.

NAH2B

the idle issue could be cam timing but its most likely a/f related. you need to pull out alot of fuel low compared to something other than the pro cams.

if your not gonna pull the head back off to check v2v and your not concerned with checking p2v then i would atleast provide some seperation and set the gears on the safe side. in other words start off by retarding the intake a bit and advancing the exhaust a bit. that will give you more clearance everywhere. if you have stock size valves i have found minimum seperation is needed for v2v maybe a couple degrees but remember every setup is different so i would do it the right way and check the clearances.

rrace002

I have.already tried adjusting the air fuel ratio using crome. At one point i had the ability to rev up to 3-4k but it would still sound like it was running on 3 cylinders.
I have tried around 11-17 and everywhere inbetween for afr at idle. That; in comination with the thread is why I was focused primarily at cam timing as the issue.

rrace002

I think that I didn't really explain what it did perfectly. The car sounded like it ran on 3 cylinders the entire time and the air fuel ratio was jumping all over the place as well on most chips that I burned; almost to the point where it wouldn't even let you tune it. Changes in the air fuel ratio had little to no effect at all on the choppy idle; and 9 out of 10 times it would not idle at all.
Also we couldn't really rev it past 2k although one time I had it up to 4500 by reprogramming chips.
The compression was testing at 200 215 218 and 225.

I will set cam timing to skunk's recommended settings and see what that does for now as the next step.

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

Haha ohhhh how times have changed.

Thanks for breakin it down NA.

snobordboy

Yeah try to crack the TB a little bit, and maybe add a little timing at idle. As Randy said, you will probably have to pull alot of fuel out, mine was trying to idle at around 10, and it took a few changes to get it up to 14:7- 15. Granted I am still on a stock TB and intake manifold, which I have been finding is really not what these cams like!

rrace002

Seems like the afr would jump around really weird, higher at first and lower as the car started to get warmer. I had it around 14.... then somehow it just jumped down to 10-11 as the car got warmer.
We did the manual adjustments near the throttle body like you said and it did idle around 10.8-11.5 for a few minutes but if you gave it a little gas it would rev slowly then stall out basically.

After that I increased the afr a little bit and it was completely off the gauge( I mean I adjusted the fuel multipliers a very very small amount equal to about 10 cc injector size difference or so).

Maybe the car was getting cold in the amount of time it was taking me to reburn the chips.... I didn't really think about that part before. I guess i really need to get some type of real time programming method.

It just wouldn't cooperate.