96halx

I went to the local speed shop a day or two ago, told them my plans, and was basically told it was a stupid set of plans. Have some problems with what they said though:

The guy said that if I stroked my motor (f22b2) 5mm over (to 100mm) I would only see about a 5% HP increase. Really, I was looking to stroke it more for torque and use the head to make more HP, but 5% more (than stock) would be 6.75 HP, which doesn't sound right to me. How solid does that opinion sound to you?

He also said that stroking it 5mm would trash my RTSR (from 1.489: down to 1.415:1), but I don't see it as being a huge change anyway. And if it risks too much side load, couldn't I just offset the wrist pin a little?

Laughed (literally got a smirk on his face and chuckled) when I said something about lapping the valves after a 7 angle valve job (which I think is a little excessive, but guess it's a personal thing).

Said to use titanium spring retainers to save weight, then recommended that I stay with the stock valves.

All in all, I think the guy might have not taken me as serious as he should have just because I didn't come rolling in with a $50,000 budget and ask him to build me an engine with his almighty abilities. Even though I feel he's wrong, I want to make sure I'm not misjudging what it is that I want to do.

Just as a funny side story: I asked the guy how much he wanted for the 7 angle valve job, and he told me that they didn't really do that sort of thing. Basically they either build the whole thing, or don't do anything. Wish I had enough money to say no to work like that. :D

PyroProblem

7 angles? wow, thats getting up there...
5% power increase from the increased stroke sounds a little on the low side, but im not that familiar with the F/H series...
Titanium retainers with stock valves is pretty commonplace with the honda community. Ive run that combo for years. But if your stroking it, chances are youll be lowering your maximum engine speed, which kinda negates the need for titanium retainers if you ask me...
Having only one shop setup the head can be a good thing, I wouldnt totally blame him for that. Eliminates finger pointing if the engine ever goes boom.

96halx

The stock redline is only 6,250 (and it's an automatic, so that's where it shifts) so I don't really think a set of retainers that are that much more is really the best suggestion either. The head is to be built by me, just wanted them to do the valve job, can't really see how they'd be worried about me pointing fingers at them, but it's understandable to an extent.

Conan the Destroyer

torque and hosepower can not be ordered ala carte' off a menu.

96halx

Conan, I generally agree with what you say, but I need to understand it to do so What do you mean? I need to clarify what I'm saying a little though:

I plan on increasing (enabling may be a better term here) the horsepower mainly by head work and increasing the compression.

I plan on increasing the bore and stroke mainly to help with the torque.

While I realize there's not a magic turn *** for each of the two, most things are biased one way or the other. I promise I'm not an idiot, just can't accurately say what I want to most of the time.

PyroProblem

Search for Bisi.
I hear he knows a thing or 2 about the F series...

96halx

ok, thanks for the info. Is that any relation to bisimoto engineering?

PyroProblem

Yup. Thats him...

98vtec

stock h22a vs. h23vtec - both using same head

87x90 vs. 89x95

96halx

If I get those kinda results, I'll be very happy.

vtibrazil

your motor is a f22b2 you won´t see anything close to those numbers! Why nota 3 or 5 angle job? How about the other simple parts as compression,tbi, intake manifold, header....???I think there is other things to think about.

unknownDC4

3 angle is more than enough. 7 angle is just outragous thats why he laughed, and more than likely didnt take you seriously after that.

GhostAccord

89 x 95 F22B2 w/ HC pistons, cam & an H23 manifold swap. Some head work and a good exhaust. I'm sure he could see close to those numbers. Of course this would require the block to be sleeved.

96halx

DC4, he's the one that wanted to do the 7 angle valve job. I can see it being confusing there the way I said it. I wanted to know about lapping it, which he laughed at. He was all about doing the 7 angle though (after I told him it was going into a daily driver no less).

vtibrazil, where can I buy compression? :D j/k man, I plan on running 11:1 (or whatever I can get tuned with 93 octane, seems to be a big variance on what how high you can go with 93 octane) I plan on getting a header too. What is a tbi? (brains not working great, can't figure it out)

No offense to anyone here, but everyone seems to think I'm going out next week to buy everything and I already have the list. This is going to take a while, buying this and that here and there. Sorry if it seems like I have a half-a**ed parts list, I just don't see the need to write out every little thing I plan on getting for the build.

Will the H23 manifold bolt right up, or will it take some fitting? (if there's a writeup on this, just disregard the question, I'll find it)

GhostAccord

I hear ya there boss. People expect these builds to be completed overnight. I have been buying parts and doing my build for well over 2 years now. I finally have all of the parts for my build. Now I'm keeping the suspense going as I save up for all the machine work that needs to be done and I can't do myself. I guess it's a bit easier when you own a shop or your still living at mommy and daddy's place, sucking from the teet, with no real bills.

take your time, do your research and build the engine that you want. Not the one people say you should build.

As for the H23 manifold swap there is a thread on here in the Accord Section. It requires a bit of an adapter plate but the thread shows you how to make it a DIY project.

Good luck with your research

96halx

How much longer til you complete your project you reckon? Less than 6 months? Now I'm all excited about it . Yea, being in the auto tech program is saving my life on this project; gives me access to A LOT of stuff I don't otherwise have access to. (Don't be bashing the no real bills part, all I have is expenses and car insurance, and cell phone).

I'm having trouble with the research part, need to know how far I can move the wrist pin up in the piston (letting me know how far I can stroke it w/out custom rods) and if offsetting the wrist pin is a good idea.

GhostAccord

I would say at least another 1 to 2 years before my build sees the road.

Unfortunately I am in the middle of a career change. Back to school until Jan to get my Pipe fitting ticket. As soon as I start to get the bills rolling in. I'll get my engine into the shop. That is really the only thing that I am in the need of money for.

In the mean time I have a bunch of chassis and interior fabricating to finish up this winter. The weather is way too nice to be in the garage right now. Specially around here. We really only get 3 months of summer. June, July & August. I'll be getting back to the garage in the fall.

As for the no bills part, at least your going to school and/or furthering your education.

As for wrist pin location. You would probably be better off looking up some of the old school engine building books. I went with 29mm compression height. That was as far as I wanted to go with the short skirt pistons that I bought. too much more and I figured it would push the center point and they would have a greater probability of rocking/tilting?

96halx

well, if I went with the 100mm stroke, I'd need a compression height of 28mm, if I went 102mm, I'd need a CH of 27mm. Stock is 30.5. The piston (if going w/ 11:1 CR) will go from a -14.5cc dome volume to a -3.8cc dome... well, technically, they would be dishes, but whatever. That would give more weight to the top of the piston, not sure if that's good or bad (still learning, always learning) for what I'm trying to do. I wish I had a magic tech line to call , things would be easier. I'm trying to have correspondence with Bisimoto Engineering's tech dept., but it's going really slow...stupid other people

95skunkedgsr

dont worry bisimoto is a very bissy guy im sure your not the only one hitting his tech dept up there is probly a list of ppl waiting for response's

96halx

no doubt, but it still sucks having to wait I wish I already had all of this figured out, that way I COULD get a parts list together. Anyone know a site that would cover what I'm doing a little more specifically?

vtibrazil

Since you have a lot of time, best to put down prices on a piece of paper and see really if it will be cost effective. Sometimes it will be better to save up and get a complete h series engine. My project took about 3 years for it to happen. I am pretty happy with it and saved a lot of money. Learned everything from honda-tech built it myself with my dad and so far I am at 209whp. Planning on sleeving my block and moving up the whp scale.

By the way I heard at Wall-mart compression is on sle 50% of all motor sale

GhostAccord

If your are now going to sleeve your H and you were all about budget planning. Why didn't you start with an F block for $150-$200 and sleeved it? It would have cost you less than buying a complete H22 and having it sleeved.........

He already has an F block that can be sleeved to 90mm and he could do a DOHC VTEC swap or do an F22A6 swap. All depends on if he wants a SOHC or DOHC VTEC.

96halx

I plan on staying with the F22b2 block, and the head will be an f22b2 head for a while. Even if I am on a budget, I'd spend 5000 on the F before I spend 3000 on an H, that's just how I want it. I know a little about the F, and it's going to be simpler to keep the stock motor than swapping it to me. Nice to be different, too; not all that many people rockin an all motor F22b2 (and don't say there's a good reason, I know it's not THE best by common opinion).

Alright! 50% off? My brother can get his employee discount, then it'll be really inexpensive :D

What head do I put on it for DOHC VTEC? (F20B?). I'm really more interested in the DOHC part, but the extra lobes could be useful; if nothing else, I could keep stock cam profiles for idle, then have it switch over to a performance-oriented profile after takeoff.

GhostAccord

F20B or JDM H23 VTEC would be options. But I think they might be rather hard to find. The H22A* head would probably be your best bet USDM or JDM. Try a local JY or parts finding facility.

96halx

I'm not really that pressed to do it, but if one just sorta falls into my lap, I might work with it . Is there a writeup on H22A* head to an F22B2 block? (I'm sure there is, but gotta do something to have more than a one line post :D