narfdanarf

I measured out the max lift for my head to be between .455 and .470 (limited by retainer to valve seal clearance) depending on how hard I pressed on the valve stem.....The reason I measured this is because my car had no valve seals left on the intake side when I did my inspection of the motor last week. The car has a relatively mild set of cams in it with a valve lift of .475.

Background info on head...stock chambers .5mm o/s valves, no valve seats, ferrea guides pushed all the way down as far as they will go, (valve guide install height is .491 which is even lower than stock ~giving me even more clearance.

So my question is, how the **** are all these people running such huge cams like Pro1's or anything else like the ****ing BC stage 3 ect....are their valve lifts really not as advertised, or does everyone who runs .490-.500 lift cams get custom shortened guides, or do they just not run valve seals, or do you mill down the head where the guide sits?

narfdanarf

Forgot to mention that I have ferrea 6000 series valves and ferrea high pressure springs, titanium retainers/keepers/seat locators if that matters to anyone.

PyroProblem

Shorten the guide by .100" so you have more guide to retainer clearance. Or you can have the machine shop install them a little deeper than normal to give you extra clearance.
Try installing the guide to .391".

YFZpilot

i seen the need to machine the spring seat deeper, way before the need to machine the guide. only drawback is that you loose seat pressure, meaning you gonna need lighter gear.

Combustion Contraption

Molst aftermarket guides, like supertech which have a stepped shoulder, place the guide installed height at about .450. If you push down OE guides to .391, you would have a whole lot of guide in the port unless you spot faced them, port side. At .391, can you even still get a seal on? I've never had a need to go that deep with a B.

narfdanarf

I could always shim the springs back up right?...I think if my guides were the "normal" .450" height I would be a lot closer to not hitting, but still wouldn't have much r2vs clearance.

Something else I was thinking about is if I could find someone to "countersink" the valve seal or if that would even work?

Garage 808 Hatch

they are in deeper than oem guides and still hit? thats strange

narfdanarf

From what I'm hearing it's not strange at all? People seem to have these issues randomly with b and h heads. I think the castings are off a little for some heads.

PyroProblem

Perhaps the Ferrea retainers are extra thick in that area?
I had the same problem. Found the springs frrom the valveseals in my oil pickup. Knocked them a little deeper (about .100") and havent had a problem since. Portflow retainers.

narfdanarf

I have Ferrea retainers, but yeah maybe they set down a little further than stock.

Garage 808 Hatch

Hmm, maybe i'll pull my valvecover on the hotrod and peek. i has Pro1 cams in it, but havent noticed an issue. what caused you to inspect the motor?

narfdanarf

Long story short we had to take the dizzy off and it was stuck for some reason so we pulled the valve cover off to loosen the cam cap and saw blue chunks of rubber everywhere.

unusual71

I promise you this is not the problem everything would be machined and checked and the tolerances for a cylinder head would be very tight. The cylinder heads probably vary less than .005" in this regard and the difference in retainer to valve seal clearance comes from the retain and valve seal themselves mostly, but also dictacted by vavle guide installed height.

4piston

Check your installed height and also do you know the part number on your retainer? We have been able to run .520 lift without contacting the seal and have run over .550 on that guide, but no seals.


I have been surprised with how far the Honda castings are off. Just an example on the K stuff the intake ports are frequently shifted up to .020", left and right and up and down even on the same molds. I have had one come through where the exhaust ports were over .060" shifted. There is a lot of core shift in the Honda heads.

narfdanarf

The valve guide install heights are at .490-.491, which is lower than any stock head I measured. Retainers are Ferrea e11000.

unusual71

do you know what core shift means?
a disposable/removable block usually made of "sand" is placed in the mold before the aluminum is poured and then it is broken out, which gives the intake and exhaust ports slightly different positions between castings due to shifting while the aluminum is still wet.

this doesn't have anything to do with the clearance we're talking about because the top section of the head is made by the mold and then machined. every head would be machined identically from valve seat to cam journals.

if what your saying was the case you would require different length valve stems or you would get different lift on different valves.

PyroProblem

Try installing the guides a little deeper. Go about .050" deeper and re-assemble/re-measure. That might be just enough for your retainers to not kiss your seals...

If you end up resetting your guides yourself (the oven method), careful not to go too deep, cause then you gotta push it all the way through and start over.

Garage 808 Hatch

After bore scoping my motor this evening, I may have a similar issue as I have residue of oil in 2 cyls, but comp and leak down are great.

narfdanarf

The Ferrea (and Supertech AFAIK) have a lip on them to prevent pushing them down too far. I could pull them out and grind the lip off I guess. I do need about .065 more clearance if I want to have the minimum recommended clearance that WEB CAMS recommends for R2VS.

PyroProblem

So you cant push them any deeper? wow. And I thought guides were always supposed to be installed and removed in the same direction ie. Dont "back them out" so to speak...

Well I guess its time to get creative! I would try spotfacing them like CC mentioned. Perhaps get a steel bushing made up that fits perfectly over the valve guide, but sits .065" lower than the guide. This could be your "drill stop" so to speak...

There is this drill attachment called a countersink "cage". Its used in sheetmetal and aviation structures repair and can be adjusted to the .001" It allows you to set up your drill do go to a certain depth repeatedly, precisely, and accurately. I think this would be the perfect tool for this job!