Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
04-01-2009, 11:53 PM
#51
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
04-02-2009, 12:02 AM
#52
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
Yup, engine output does not change, and a dyno graph would just show virtually the same thing. It's what you put to the ground that changes 
04-02-2009, 09:10 AM
#56
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
i dont understand some people. even though it will make him faster,if he cant brag bout the dyno #'s he's makeing at the local mcdonalds,he doesnt want anything to do with it.
hes wanting to tear the motor down and pay the $ to completely rebuild it with new parts for .5mm of displacement on each cylinder. a reworked tranny with gears and and final drive[or hell even just a final drive] will make him faster
hes wanting to tear the motor down and pay the $ to completely rebuild it with new parts for .5mm of displacement on each cylinder. a reworked tranny with gears and and final drive[or hell even just a final drive] will make him faster
04-02-2009, 11:04 AM
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
The mfactory kit would be perfect to increase acceleration but thats one thing that has to be taken delicately, simply put if its a street car daily driven maybe the fd should be the only thing to be changed out. I mean think of riding a 10 speed mountain bike for a few miles in 1st gear, itll wear you out alot quicker because your body is working overtime to generate speed, the same theory applys to your engine. If he has to take the highway at anytime during the day just think about how quick his engine can deteriorate!
04-02-2009, 11:54 AM
#58
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
Engine wear will actually decrease for everyday street driving as, rpm for rpm, your engine will be under far less stress to make your car move due to the increased torque.
For highway driving, it really just depends on what speed you are driving along at. With a 1.130 5th Gear, you are doing 70mph @ 4800rpm. That isn't really going to kill your engine any more than the stock 70mph @ 3700rpm.
For highway driving, it really just depends on what speed you are driving along at. With a 1.130 5th Gear, you are doing 70mph @ 4800rpm. That isn't really going to kill your engine any more than the stock 70mph @ 3700rpm.
04-02-2009, 01:02 PM
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04-02-2009, 01:44 PM
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
Engine wear will actually decrease for everyday street driving as, rpm for rpm, your engine will be under far less stress to make your car move due to the increased torque.
For highway driving, it really just depends on what speed you are driving along at. With a 1.130 5th Gear, you are doing 70mph @ 4800rpm. That isn't really going to kill your engine any more than the stock 70mph @ 3700rpm.
For highway driving, it really just depends on what speed you are driving along at. With a 1.130 5th Gear, you are doing 70mph @ 4800rpm. That isn't really going to kill your engine any more than the stock 70mph @ 3700rpm.
04-02-2009, 02:40 PM
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
i make about the same hp 210whp 140 torque with a gsr motor with a ls crank, ported gsr head skunk2 stage 2. and jdm itr pistions.
my dyno is kinda smilar to yours.
i might rebuild it i dont know yet. it burns alot of oil and cyl 1 only reads 220-210psi while the others all read 260-240 compression.
so i think i have a chance to make more power.
my dyno is kinda smilar to yours.
i might rebuild it i dont know yet. it burns alot of oil and cyl 1 only reads 220-210psi while the others all read 260-240 compression.
so i think i have a chance to make more power.
Last edited by hayabusa160; 04-02-2009 at 02:50 PM.
04-02-2009, 03:42 PM
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
I don't care if my dyno sheet says i made 3 whp...I want the car to go 12.90 or better. It did go 13.90@102 on horrible street all season tires. I couldn't pull better than a 2.3 60' because of the tires.
04-02-2009, 04:23 PM
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
due to less throttle input needed to hold the same rpm etc...fuel mileage will remain the same and/or increase.
04-02-2009, 04:27 PM
#67
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
Here's some information that you might find interesting then, seeing as you want ideas in how to make more power. The following takes a completely different approach to "making power", called torque multiplication. As you will soon see, there really is a Replacement for Displacement 
Ask yourself this, which of the following would you choose (for an NA Honda):
1) Big engine modifications to increase power
2) Mild, or even no engine modifications, but changing your transmission setup to utilize your available power to the maximum potential
Most people (probably 90% plus) would choose no.1, and for good reason. Make more power and your car will go faster, that's common sense. However, if you are able to balance your top speed requirements with your noise/mileage requirements, for an NA Honda, engine power takes a very distant 2nd place in terms of putting power to the ground. Let me explain....
Most think the acceleration gain from changing gears is due to the change in rpm and/or shift points. Although this does contribute in a sense (i.e keeping you in your powerband), the main reason why your car is so much faster is because of torque multiplication. For example:
1st Gear - 3.230
Final Drive - 4.4
3.230 x 4.4 = 14.212 absolute ratio. What this means is that, for every turn of your wheel, your crank will have turned 14.212 times. From this, we can calculate the total torque produced to the ground:
Absolute Ratio x Engine Torque = Torque to the Ground
Based on stock Civic EK9 Type-R with 115lbft engine torque, the following is how much torque you would gain throughout the whole rev range and to the ground. Engine power does not change.
4.928 Final Drive Only:
1st through 5th - 11% increase. That is the equivalent of 127lbft engine torque.
A popular close ratio gear set + 4.928 Final Drive:
1st (3.070) - 6% increase
2nd (oem) - 11% increase
3rd (1.695) - 30% increase
4th (1.384) - 40% increase
5th (1.130) - 49% increase!!!
To put this into perspective, what the above is telling you is that in 5th gear, you would have the equivalent of 171lbft engine torque, and that is without doing anything other than changing your gears. A B18C-R conversion (one of the most popular modifications) is only 137lbft!
Now if we substituted a 1.210 5th gear instead (commonly used in Rally Cars), this would give a 60% increase. This is the equivalent of having 184lbft, which is more than the Mugen Civic RR Advanced Concept
Torque = Acceleration. Torque is your best friend, and engine modifications alone will never get you this sort of increase. Gearing = NA Motor on Steroids
Please Note: Top speeds will be reduced, and different applications require different ratios. It is up to the user to decide on what is suitable for his/her application. However, the point of the information I posted above is to explain torque multiplication, how it works, and why it makes your car faster
Ask yourself this, which of the following would you choose (for an NA Honda):
1) Big engine modifications to increase power
2) Mild, or even no engine modifications, but changing your transmission setup to utilize your available power to the maximum potential
Most people (probably 90% plus) would choose no.1, and for good reason. Make more power and your car will go faster, that's common sense. However, if you are able to balance your top speed requirements with your noise/mileage requirements, for an NA Honda, engine power takes a very distant 2nd place in terms of putting power to the ground. Let me explain....
Most think the acceleration gain from changing gears is due to the change in rpm and/or shift points. Although this does contribute in a sense (i.e keeping you in your powerband), the main reason why your car is so much faster is because of torque multiplication. For example:
1st Gear - 3.230
Final Drive - 4.4
3.230 x 4.4 = 14.212 absolute ratio. What this means is that, for every turn of your wheel, your crank will have turned 14.212 times. From this, we can calculate the total torque produced to the ground:
Absolute Ratio x Engine Torque = Torque to the Ground
Based on stock Civic EK9 Type-R with 115lbft engine torque, the following is how much torque you would gain throughout the whole rev range and to the ground. Engine power does not change.
4.928 Final Drive Only:
1st through 5th - 11% increase. That is the equivalent of 127lbft engine torque.
A popular close ratio gear set + 4.928 Final Drive:
1st (3.070) - 6% increase
2nd (oem) - 11% increase
3rd (1.695) - 30% increase
4th (1.384) - 40% increase
5th (1.130) - 49% increase!!!
To put this into perspective, what the above is telling you is that in 5th gear, you would have the equivalent of 171lbft engine torque, and that is without doing anything other than changing your gears. A B18C-R conversion (one of the most popular modifications) is only 137lbft!
Now if we substituted a 1.210 5th gear instead (commonly used in Rally Cars), this would give a 60% increase. This is the equivalent of having 184lbft, which is more than the Mugen Civic RR Advanced Concept
Torque = Acceleration. Torque is your best friend, and engine modifications alone will never get you this sort of increase. Gearing = NA Motor on Steroids
Please Note: Top speeds will be reduced, and different applications require different ratios. It is up to the user to decide on what is suitable for his/her application. However, the point of the information I posted above is to explain torque multiplication, how it works, and why it makes your car faster
04-03-2009, 07:18 AM
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04-03-2009, 01:24 PM
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
unfortunately i cant tell you what a shop will charge you since every shop has a different rate. its really quite simple to do...if you can build a motor you can pull apart a trans.
04-03-2009, 02:10 PM
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
04-03-2009, 02:32 PM
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
this write up is great it would help you alot...
https://honda-tech.com/forums/transmission-drivetrain-127/b-series-transmission-teardown-rebuild-tutorial-2443459/
https://honda-tech.com/forums/transmission-drivetrain-127/b-series-transmission-teardown-rebuild-tutorial-2443459/
04-03-2009, 02:48 PM
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
Upping the FD will certainly make the car feel faster in any given gear, but there will be certain periods that the car will be accelerating slower, as well. Not that it's necessarily a bad idea, but it's not like there are no trade-offs.
I never realized that to reduce wear on my engine and get great mileage all I needed to do was never shift out of 3rd gear
Someone should tell the OEMs as well. These days they are busy adding things like longer final drives/top gears, advanced EGR, and cylinder deactivation, all to get better mileage by spinning the engines slower and with more open throttles. They would probably also be interested to learn that they've gotten it all wrong.
I never realized that to reduce wear on my engine and get great mileage all I needed to do was never shift out of 3rd gear
Someone should tell the OEMs as well. These days they are busy adding things like longer final drives/top gears, advanced EGR, and cylinder deactivation, all to get better mileage by spinning the engines slower and with more open throttles. They would probably also be interested to learn that they've gotten it all wrong.
04-03-2009, 03:29 PM
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Re: Made 211whp 142ft/lbs tq...ideas to make more!
yes, there are a few tradeoffs, but when you have a motor that is right where you want it, but the car needs a little more pep...the gearing is where you go for improvement.
ill never forget watching my buddy do a pull down the street in my car and then watching my other buddies stock gsr with R gearbox go, and seeing how match faster his car accelerated even with 30ish less whp.
ill never forget watching my buddy do a pull down the street in my car and then watching my other buddies stock gsr with R gearbox go, and seeing how match faster his car accelerated even with 30ish less whp.